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Sadhguru - Ideal Education


Ideal Education -- Sir Ken Robinson



Sir Ken Robinson with Sadhguru At Los Angeles


00:00
We are creatures that grow from small
00:02
beginnings and what we grow into depends
00:05
on several factors one it's the
00:07
conditions that surround us and one is
00:09
the extent to which we engage with the
00:11
life within us for the past probably 20
00:16
years more education has become a
00:19
strategic issue around the world you
00:23
know when I was a student
00:25
nobody's very interested in what was
00:27
happening another country is an
00:28
education I mean I was growing up in
00:29
England we didn't really care what was
00:31
happening in Finland people in America
00:34
weren't that bothered about what was
00:35
happening in Spain but now government's
00:38
our education has become a strategic
00:40
issue and it's become a strategic issue
00:42
because of the nature and pace of
00:44
globalization and education has become
00:47
seen as a process to encourage
00:51
competition and economic success between
00:54
countries and it's led to the most
00:56
corrupt and sterile form of education
01:00
you can imagine for our children our
01:03
children are suffering now from high
01:05
levels of stress than ever before more
01:08
and more kids are not graduating from
01:09
high school I hate the expression is
01:11
hate a strong word I hate the expression
01:15
dropout in America currently something
01:19
like 30% of kids who start the ninth
01:21
grade don't complete the twelfth grade
01:24
and that every single child has a reason
01:28
for that I mean there are trends but
01:30
what's interesting not the statistics
01:33
it's the reasons individuals have but
01:35
you know if you're running any kind of
01:37
enterprise and you lost 30 percent of
01:41
your clients every year you might wonder
01:44
whether it was the stupid clients or
01:46
your enterprise and to call use kids
01:49
dropouts makes it sound like they failed
01:51
the system and it's much more accurate
01:53
to say the system has failed them
01:54
because I don't know any kid who doesn't
01:57
want to learn you know children are born
02:00
with immense possibilities I mean
02:03
infinite possibilities and they have a
02:05
massive appetite to learn
02:07
I mean think what happens in the first
02:09
18 months of life children learn to
02:12
speak little babies in the first eight
02:15
months learnt to speak and nobody
02:17
teaches them you don't if you're a
02:19
parent you didn't teach your child to
02:21
speak it's far too complicated you know
02:23
you wouldn't have the time and they
02:24
wouldn't have the patience it's not like
02:27
you set your child out of the age of 18
02:28
months and say look we need to talk you
02:31
know or or more specifically you do and
02:37
this is how it's going to work you know
02:39
you probably notice your mother and I've
02:41
been making all these noises fast 18
02:42
months well some of these are names of
02:44
things we call them nouns they're other
02:46
noises we make they're not names of
02:47
things they're names things you can do
02:48
with things we call them verbs if you
02:51
change the noise you can say what you
02:53
will do and what you have done and don't
02:55
worry about the subjunctive nobody gets
02:56
it you know it doesn't work like that
03:00
you know kids absorb language through
03:04
their skin you nudge them you correct
03:06
them you know you
03:08
they mimic you but you don't speak you
03:11
don't teach them and by the way if they
03:13
grow up in a in a home whether a six
03:14
languages spoken I'll just learn all of
03:16
those kids love to learn the problem
03:19
they have is with education which is the
03:22
time when we start to decide
03:24
systematically to teach them things and
03:26
many of the rhythms of Education are
03:29
obstructive to the natural rhythms of
03:32
learning so my premise is that children
03:34
are born with immense natural capacities
03:36
they have a tremendous appetite to learn
03:40
and education has become the problem
03:45
when you say what is the aim of
03:47
education and I'd put it this way that
03:50
I'm done I'd love to know what sänger
03:52
has to say about this coming from a
03:54
different culture perspective but my
03:57
Technol is exist that all all of us are
03:59
born into two worlds know that there's a
04:01
world that existed before you came into
04:04
it it was there before you were it's the
04:07
world of historical circumstances it's
04:08
the world that existed whether or not
04:10
you exist there would be there when
04:12
you've gone according to where your
04:14
metaphysics take you but there's another
04:16
world that exists only because you exist
04:18
it's the world that came into being when
04:20
you did it's the world of your private
04:21
consciousness the world of yourself
04:25
the world of witches once said there's
04:27
only one set of footprints but the world
04:29
of your own anxiety is hopes and
04:31
aspirations and talents and fears and
04:33
ambitions and so on education is filled
04:38
with the outer world and most of the
04:41
problems that children experience are to
04:42
do with their inner world so as I see it
04:45
the role of Education is to help
04:46
children understand the world around
04:47
them that's clearly essential and also
04:51
the world within them so that they can
04:53
become in a compassionate fulfilled and
04:57
engaged individuals and for me the great
05:02
deficit in education in the moment is
05:03
extent to which we fail to engage the
05:05
child in a world and recognize how much
05:07
they could become if we invest enough of
05:10
our time effort and own conscience at
05:12
standing after what their possibilities
05:14
are
05:42
I'm glad that there's no perfect school
05:45
anywhere because this aspiration for
05:53
perfection is very debt oriented it's
05:59
something that most people have missed
06:02
the nature of life is it's never perfect
06:06
only death is perfect
06:09
never has that happened in proof
06:12
imperfectly never has life happened
06:15
perfectly if school is about life then
06:19
there is no perfect school having said
06:23
that as someone said not him somebody
06:32
from England no I mean I'm seeing I'm
06:35
seeing him as a representation of
06:37
England someone said that education is a
06:45
necessary evil
06:48
it is a necessary evil because there is
06:52
a resident evil in the car in the world
06:54
we have very convoluted aspirations in
07:00
the sense largely most part of the
07:04
education is trying to manufacture cogs
07:08
for the larger machine that we have
07:09
built our children are the fuel
07:12
unfortunately we have to put them into
07:15
some slot where they'll function well
07:17
and when we see the world world is no
07:21
more about people the world is about the
07:23
economic engine that we are driving it's
07:25
become bigger than us we have to keep
07:27
the engine going waves get to stop it
07:29
for a moment we have to keep going now
07:33
the problem is this that we have created
07:36
a world if our economies fail we will be
07:41
depressed if our economies succeed we'll
07:45
be damned for good I feel it's better
07:49
you're depressed
07:52
now talking about a screw as a way of
07:56
manufacturing cogs for the machine there
08:00
are many ways to do it every nation has
08:02
its own system if I have to shape you
08:06
into your particular shape that you must
08:08
fit into a particular machine it's a
08:10
Croyle process but now we can't let the
08:13
machine fail it needs spare parts
08:15
constantly it has to absorb and humanity
08:19
is the spare parts so our children are
08:22
the fuel and the machine parts which go
08:25
into this to run the larger machine
08:26
that's one aspect so this is why I read
08:31
rest education in three different
08:33
dimensions which people around me are
08:36
still trying to grasp why these three
08:38
different things there is one form of
08:41
Education which is called issue Vidya I
08:43
think they might have showed something
08:45
about that this is for the rural masses
08:48
in India where the problem is they're in
08:51
a economic and social fit with they
08:55
cannot get out by themselves
08:57
the only ladder for them is education
09:00
employment generating education but
09:05
there are reasonably well-to-do people
09:07
where they might have gone through that
09:10
in the previous generation but this
09:11
generation need not think about how to
09:14
earn my living they have to look at how
09:17
to expand who they are so we have is a
09:20
home school which caters to that this
09:23
because this kind of education costs
09:25
money
09:25
so only people who can afford it can do
09:29
that cost money means not like how it
09:31
costs here by Indian standards it costs
09:34
money and there's another form of
09:38
Education where people are not
09:39
interested in serving this machine or
09:42
that machine they want individuals to
09:44
blossom so we have issues some scrotie
09:47
where there is no academic education of
09:49
any kind they only learn music dance art
09:54
sensitive language calorie which is a
09:58
very the mother of all martial arts and
10:02
classical dance classical music
10:05
English language is a passport of the
10:07
world so these children are a treat to
10:11
watch this is how children should have
10:15
been just to give you a glimpse of what
10:19
it is at the age of 15 for three years
10:23
they go into monastic life compulsively
10:27
they must go on compulsively they must
10:29
come out at 18 they cannot continue
10:32
they'll take a monastic life for three
10:35
years but after three years they cannot
10:37
continue they have to discontinue that
10:39
and get back to normal life
10:41
this is for discipline and focus but you
10:46
can't make the entire world like that
10:48
this is an ideal to work towards the
10:53
idea of this kind of schooling is just
10:55
to develop human body and human brain
10:58
without any intention without any
11:00
intention as to what they should become
11:02
they can become whatever they want only
11:05
thing is human body and human mind
11:07
should grow to its fullest capability
11:09
and attention is the main thing an
11:13
indiscriminate and unprejudiced
11:15
attention is what we're trying to evolve
11:17
in the children that they learn to pay
11:20
attention to everything the same way
11:22
that you don't divide the world as
11:24
something as good and something as bad
11:26
something high something low something
11:29
divine something devil something wildy
11:31
something sacred
11:32
no you learn to pay the same attention
11:35
to everything
11:36
this is the fundamental of this form of
11:39
Education what will they do what will
11:41
they do is the aspiration so I
11:42
guaranteed them one thing 12 years if
11:44
you enter the school the commitment is
11:46
for 12 years you have to 6 if you come
11:48
18 of you you can leave so they asked me
11:52
what will the children do I said one
11:53
thing unless you do we will not give you
11:55
a certificate at the end yes it's a good
11:59
word I said did anybody ask me what is
12:02
my certification only in the American
12:04
Embassy they asked me so I said no
12:08
certification because doors in the world
12:09
may open little slowly for you but when
12:12
they open they stay open because not
12:16
because of qualification but back
12:18
competence you open doors it is just
12:20
that everybody is in a mad race your
12:23
children should do better than your
12:25
neighbors children this is a disease I
12:30
agree I don't know you're unqualified by
12:33
the way that's the I actually have to go
12:42
the only qualification I have and that
12:46
is the only striving in my life how to
12:49
remain uneducated because this is the
12:53
biggest problem why education has become
12:55
a problem in the world ease
12:57
people become who they are in the world
13:00
because of what they have gathered this
13:04
is a very unfortunate situation right
13:06
now whether it is material things or
13:09
knowledge whatever information they have
13:11
gathered it makes them who they are now
13:14
who you are and what you have gathered
13:16
are two different things
13:17
this is the distinction we are trying to
13:20
bring into child's life in our schools
13:22
whatever you may gather it doesn't
13:24
matter what you gather is just
13:26
information and things information is a
13:28
thing by itself it should not determine
13:31
who you are who you are is determined by
13:34
a different process what you gather by a
13:36
different process so when I keep
13:39
repeating to everybody some lot of these
13:41
people feel ashamed my guru is
13:43
uneducated they try to say no he only
13:45
says that he's really educated what I am
13:48
saying is whatever I have gathered does
13:53
not determine who I am because the
13:55
biggest problem in the world is this
13:57
from the day you are born all kinds of
14:00
people are trying to teach you something
14:02
that's not worked in their life I think
14:05
if I can say one of the major problems
14:09
agree with all of that is that we didn't
14:12
have systems of mass education as we
14:18
know them now pretty much until the
14:19
middle of the nineteenth century
14:20
you know they were invented made up
14:25
yes it was part of the Industrial
14:27
Revolution and it was associated with
14:31
the big move from the countryside into
14:33
the cities to provide a workforce for
14:36
the industrial economy it's very
14:39
straightforward from that point of view
14:40
it was a massive piece of social
14:42
engineering it's why the system is
14:45
shaped the way it was we needed a
14:46
majority of people to do blue-collar
14:49
work which is why we had a broad base of
14:51
elementary education and a relatively
14:53
small group of people to do clerical
14:56
administrative work in suits which is
14:58
why we had a small university sector and
15:00
the system was created that way in
15:02
Britain you know when I was at school at
15:05
the age of eleven while we all took an
15:07
exam I'm sure Ian would remember it it's
15:09
called the eleven plus and it determined
15:12
at the age of eleven which type of
15:13
school he went to at which high school
15:15
the grammar school or a Secondary Modern
15:16
School it was ready an IQ test but
15:19
people thought it was a blood test you
15:21
know that told them how smart they were
15:23
and actually was just a capacity to do
15:25
that type of test and like a driving
15:27
test you could get better at it and and
15:30
I mean a lot of people were trained to
15:32
do it and they got through it but the
15:34
consequence of it is that we created
15:37
this kind of system where there were a
15:43
small group of winners and they did very
15:44
well by it but the vast majority didn't
15:47
and part of the problem as I see it is
15:48
that the system education is burdened
15:52
with certain ideological assumptions one
15:55
of them is a whole set of ideas not
15:57
intelligence so the whole ideal of
16:01
Western education is to get people to
16:02
University and therefore and that's
16:05
because the universities abrogated the
16:07
system to their own purposes and
16:10
therefore we have in the system this
16:12
deep deeply mistaken assumption that the
16:16
that intelligence is the same thing as
16:18
academic ability an academic I believe
16:21
is very important but it's a very
16:22
specific capacity the capacity to do
16:24
certain types of deductive reasoning
16:25
certain types of critical discourse but
16:29
the upshot is that if you're not very
16:30
good at that your thought not to be very
16:32
smart because the truth is if you create
16:35
a very narrow conception of ability you
16:37
create a very big conception of
16:39
disability
16:39
and inability I just said that that's
16:43
we're doing personal stories for a
16:45
second I'm from Liverpool in England and
16:49
I mention one thing I went to school
16:52
across the city center from the Napoleon
16:55
ship which is worth Paul McCartney was
16:57
it school I didn't know him then I'm
16:58
sure some of you people do know him
16:59
quite well but I his I wrote a book a
17:03
few years ago called the element how
17:04
finding your passion changes everything
17:05
and I interviewed lots of people for for
17:08
the book one of whom was Paul McCartney
17:11
and I tell you this because I think it's
17:13
very important you don't leave here
17:14
today unaware of the fact that I hang
17:17
out with with Paul McCartney
17:21
I know Paul as I call him with this was
17:30
him I asked him I interviewed him for
17:34
the book and I said did you enjoy music
17:35
at school and he said no he hated it I
17:39
said did your music teacher think you
17:42
had any Talent he said no already he
17:45
does doesn't he and then one of the
17:48
other people in the same music program
17:49
in the same school was George Harrison
17:52
the lead guitarist of the popular music
17:55
group The Beatles and and I said did any
17:59
did your music teach you think George
18:00
had any talent he said no not really
18:03
I said look would this be a reasonable
18:05
comment that there was this one music
18:08
teacher in Liverpool in the late 1950s
18:11
who had half the Beatles in his class
18:15
and he missed it you said yes well it's
18:18
a bit of an oversight is it anybody's
18:26
stand out in your class this year mr.
18:27
Wilcox not really no be leaps forward
18:32
frankly what is it if you create this
18:36
narrow view of ability then you
18:38
automatic to do all this other stuff I
18:40
mean in you sank you may remember this
18:43
but in the 50s there was a big polio
18:46
epidemic you know that ran right through
18:48
America and Europe and and I got it you
18:51
know as one of the the I'm one of seven
18:53
kids I was the only one of the family to
18:55
get it and the only one in the street to
18:57
get it you know despite my vigorous
18:59
attempts to cross infect the entire
19:01
neighborhood you know I thought yeah
19:02
you're coming down with me you know but
19:03
anyway I was in hospital and I I end up
19:06
going to into special ed for from as
19:09
five till eleven and that's what they
19:13
used to do so so I was in a school which
19:15
had lots of kids with polio
19:18
lots of kids with cerebral palsy
19:20
partially sighted blind deaf kids our
19:25
sits next to one kid in school who had a
19:28
really bad case of cerebral palsy and
19:31
it's a terrible thing to deal with you
19:32
know because if you know if you don't
19:34
have it if you can just to move your
19:36
arms around you just have to relax
19:37
muscles and contract them you don't
19:38
think about it but if you've got
19:39
cerebral palsy or affected by it you're
19:42
fighting your body all the time so
19:43
you're doing this type of stuff and and
19:45
if you try to speak and it's affected
19:46
your face it's you sound as if you're
19:49
talking nonsense
19:50
and and of course you may talk be
19:51
talking absolute sin this is just you
19:53
can't get the sounds out and so the guy
19:56
sitting next to me in one my finally at
19:59
the school couldn't grip a pencil in his
20:01
fingers but he could grip it in his toes
20:04
and he had beautiful writing better than
20:07
mine actually
20:08
what's his handwriting
20:12
we don't know we don't hurt but them but
20:17
the point is we're surrounded by people
20:18
in this I was saying him in my classroom
20:21
then that school was like the barroom
20:23
scene from Star Wars you know there are
20:25
kind of people in various degrees of
20:27
decrepitude you know being brought in
20:29
but nobody was interested in what
20:32
people's disabilities seemed to be what
20:35
were interesting was what they were good
20:36
at and if they were smart or interesting
20:38
or what and the fact is that many of the
20:40
things that they had devot with weren't
20:44
what really define them but because
20:47
there's this narrow view of ability if
20:49
you have trouble writing or speaking
20:51
it's assumed that you have some
20:52
associated mental incapacity which is
20:55
why you get this big conception of
20:56
disability surrounding it but if you
20:58
reframe the conception of abilities
21:00
suddenly discover all these talents and
21:02
possibilities their inherent all the
21:04
time
21:04
and I mention it because it's a dramatic
21:06
example it's special that is to me of
21:08
what happens all the time in general
21:09
education all kinds of kids are told
21:12
they've got problems who don't have them
21:13
they're created by the system and it's
21:17
the problem of the system that we need
21:19
to to address that a few reframe ability
21:23
that all of these difficulties that
21:25
people seem to be suffering from
21:26
suddenly disappear if you find the
21:28
things they're good at if you do as
21:30
Sanger is suggesting if you create an
21:32
environment which is holistic which is
21:34
addressing your spiritual development
21:35
your physical development which
21:37
recognize that human life is not linear
21:39
its organic and it will take many
21:42
different courses then you have a
21:44
completely different setting additions
21:45
under which people will flourish and
21:47
it's the fact that this the conditions
21:49
themselves which are industrial in
21:51
character create problems for kids which
21:54
they then begin to rail against so we
21:55
now have a system based on competition
21:57
narrow view of ability and one in which
22:00
people being medicated to stay with the
22:01
program they're being pathologized for
22:04
losing interest in what is essentially
22:05
very boring stuff we sit them down all
22:09
day long and wonder why they fidget and
22:12
there are different ways of doing it
22:13
better ways I mean for me it's it's as
22:15
plain as day really you know education
22:18
is not one of those things like an
22:19
incurable disease and we can't figure
22:20
out what to do we know what to do in
22:23
education it's about taking this thing
22:24
to scale
22:25
but taking it to scale doesn't mean
22:27
replicating it because as you say
22:28
there's no perfect school actually there
22:30
are no tools toast to schools alike but
22:33
like there are no two individuals alike
22:34
but there are principles you can apply
22:36
everywhere and getting those principles
22:38
in place to me is the big challenge now
22:39
as we're looking for an evolution of a
22:44
human being through the education system
22:47
the education system should be always an
22:51
evolving process by itself when we think
22:56
in terms of a perfect school we're
22:58
thinking of again fixing it somewhere
23:01
that's what needs to change as one can
23:06
develop because can mention this IQ test
23:11
I'm saying as one can develop muscle by
23:13
doing certain things with the body one
23:17
can develop intelligence the fundamental
23:21
aspect of developing intelligence is
23:24
right now there are some studies I know
23:28
I don't know you must tell me I'm not an
23:30
expert on these things we'd say if a
23:33
child goes through 20 years of formal
23:35
education and comes out with a PhD they
23:38
say 70% of intelligence is irrevocably
23:41
destroyed because yet I have a PhD
23:52
I leave that to you Ken so essentially
24:04
what's being said by the studies is
24:06
we're mistaking information for
24:09
education by deadening the brain with
24:13
too much information definitely the
24:17
possibility of intelligence is lost this
24:20
is why I said what we accumulate and who
24:23
we are should remain separate Who I am
24:25
should not be influenced by water have
24:28
accumulated whether the material things
24:30
or information or impressions this is of
24:33
the world I would like to little differ
24:36
and what was said in terms of child's
24:40
inner world and external world what we
24:46
are mistaking to be inner world is still
24:49
external in my perception because a
24:51
child's fears ambitions aspirations are
24:55
all external inspired or infected I
24:59
would say without side situation it is
25:02
not natural aspiration life natural our
25:05
aspiration of life if you look at it if
25:07
you leave someone uninfluenced from
25:10
outside the natural aspiration is always
25:14
to expand not to become less but if you
25:19
look at today's form of education
25:22
because it's purely intellect education
25:25
there is no other dimension of
25:27
intelligence in it and I think in this
25:29
part of the world there is a serious
25:31
mistake that intellect has been mistaken
25:35
for intelligence intellect your
25:38
intellect can function only with the
25:40
backing of your memory or in other words
25:43
your intellect functions with
25:45
accumulated information if I take away
25:47
all your memory your intellect is quite
25:50
useless by itself but there are the
25:52
dimensions of intelligence within you
25:54
which does not need the support of
25:56
memory if education systems do not focus
26:00
on activating these dimensions of
26:03
intelligence
26:03
you will find factory workers you will
26:07
not find a genius in every home what you
26:10
need is an innovative intelligence today
26:14
when I say when I use the word
26:15
innovation you think developing a new i8
26:19
form I am NOT talking about that
26:22
maybe we can develop a world without a
26:24
phone we don't know what's an innovation
26:28
innovation need not necessarily mean
26:30
improvement of what we have little by
26:32
little little by little yes that is also
26:34
needed but that is not what life is
26:36
looking for people are not any better
26:40
with phone without phone maybe we are
26:43
doing more things but equally confused
26:45
equally struggling as it was before so
26:48
the point is not about what we have
26:53
gathered what we have gathered is useful
26:55
in creating comfort and convenience for
26:58
the world what we have gathered is not
27:00
useful for creating well-being for
27:02
ourselves and for the world
27:04
if well-being has to happen we have to
27:07
access dimensions of intelligence which
27:09
are not intellectual because intellect
27:12
cannot function without accumulated
27:15
information if you function always out
27:18
of accumulated information you naturally
27:21
get identified with it so depending upon
27:23
what you have accumulated you become
27:25
that kind because you have become that
27:28
kind another kind and your kind always
27:31
goes into conflict if the purpose of
27:35
education is to expand horizons of
27:37
individual human beings you can see
27:40
that's definitely not happening the more
27:42
educated somebody becomes as people get
27:45
educated they really can't get along
27:47
with anybody they not so educated people
27:52
can live together hundred people can
27:54
live together
27:54
once you become educated you become
27:56
isolated because this is the nature of
27:59
the intellect because you're employing
28:02
only one wheel out of four wheels of
28:04
your car it is like that it's like
28:07
suppose you're driving on the street and
28:09
you are some kind of an expert you drive
28:12
on just two wheels what must you do you
28:16
got a car for that
28:18
you driving just on two wheels maybe
28:21
you're good at it but nobody else on the
28:24
street want to drive with you they will
28:25
all stop if you're driving on four
28:28
wheels
28:29
everybody will drive with you so the
28:31
other dimensions of intelligence have to
28:33
come otherwise the moment you get
28:35
intellectual unknowingly you send
28:38
somewhere you exclude the world so in a
28:41
way the way of our education has been to
28:44
butcher the existence into tiny
28:47
fragments and we're trying to fix the
28:49
fragments it's not going to work like
28:51
that
28:51
if education has to become holistic
28:56
there are systemic problems are not
28:58
saying no but more than the systems the
29:02
people who deliver the system if we can
29:04
upgrade them in a huge way every system
29:07
can be made to work good I have seen in
29:11
India the most rudimentary system is the
29:13
state education I have been there to
29:16
these schools before we went in to
29:18
starting our own rural schools I just
29:20
wanted to see what's right or wrong with
29:21
these guys I found some schools are like
29:25
as good as pigs day in terms of what
29:30
they're producing some schools same
29:32
stuff but they're doing wonderful work
29:35
so it's the people who deliver that
29:38
whatever the system if you upgrade the
29:40
people who deliver this to the best
29:42
people see if we are interested in the
29:44
future generations of our humanity the
29:48
best people in the world must go into
29:50
teaching but right now the lowest grade
29:53
of people are going because everything
29:54
is determined by economics how much are
29:57
you paid that's how you go so this is
30:00
where what I am saying earlier is
30:02
important what you accumulate should not
30:06
determine who you are as long as that is
30:08
so the economic values will rule as long
30:12
economic values rule is the muscle which
30:14
rules not the intelligence
30:19
we tend to measure what we value and you
30:22
were talking about standardized tests
30:24
the so much of teaching and learning is
30:27
about relationships that imply intimacy
30:31
and caring and witnessing and seeing one
30:33
another with the teacher I know you have
30:35
a story about the teacher and the doctor
30:38
who noticed that the little girl is
30:40
fidgeting was actually in the master so
30:42
how do we is it about training the
30:45
teachers or is it supporting the
30:47
teachers in a different way and how do
30:48
we create inspiring teachers or give
30:51
them the room to help foster all the
30:54
different types of intelligence there
30:59
are excuse me there are several strands
31:03
to education obviously and one of them
31:06
is the curriculum I'm talk about
31:09
organized education the Mindi people
31:16
learn on their own and and can learn
31:18
informally but if we talk about
31:19
organized education as in the scores
31:23
that Sanger is describing all the
31:24
schools you've been involved in there is
31:26
a curriculum which is what we want
31:29
people to learn so a big part of this
31:31
argument is we need a different sort of
31:33
curriculum at the moment in America for
31:36
example we have a very narrow curriculum
31:38
that's based primarily on fairly
31:41
impoverished view of science technology
31:43
and math I same porush because math can
31:46
be a fantastically invigorating
31:48
interesting discipline years ago I asked
31:51
a professor pure mathematics so with the
31:54
university I worked at how you would
31:56
assess a PhD in pure mathematics his
32:02
intelligence had gone at this point
32:03
obviously only 70% at least 70% with him
32:08
but the small shard of it that was left
32:11
I said I said to him how would you
32:15
assess a PhD in pure math that's
32:18
actually first I said him how long is a
32:20
PhD in pure math cuz I've never seen one
32:22
and he said he'd seen one recently there
32:25
was twenty pages long you know like 20
32:27
pages of math
32:31
after page aperture of math with equals
32:33
at the end and and I imagine I've never
32:37
seen one so so I said well how would you
32:39
judge one
32:40
I mean presumed it's right you know
32:44
you'd be annoyed with you spent five
32:46
years doing a PhD in pure math comes
32:48
back wrong see me and he said yeah
32:55
they're normally right well how do you
32:58
judge one and he said they're two
33:00
criteria
33:01
there's originality in other words it's
33:04
how creative it is I'd like to talk a
33:06
bit more about creativity in a bed.but
33:08
but it's about whether it breaks new
33:10
ground but the second I loved he said
33:12
its aesthetic I said why does that
33:15
matter he said because mathematicians
33:16
believe that mathematics is the purest
33:18
way we have of describing some of the
33:20
truths of nature and since nature is
33:22
inherently beautiful the more elegant
33:24
the proof the more likely it is to be
33:26
true he could be taught a sonata or a
33:28
dance or a poem and cost mathematicians
33:31
do feel that way to a mathematician
33:34
mathematics is a beautiful abstract
33:36
language like poetry and the problem
33:38
people have is they don't speak math you
33:41
know if you don't read music if you look
33:43
at a page of notation what you see is a
33:47
visual puzzle if you read music you
33:51
don't see a puzzle you hear a symphony
33:52
and it's the same with mathematics that
33:55
mathematicians who speak math see a
33:57
symphony they don't see a puzzle and so
34:01
a lot of the problem in mathematics is
34:03
that it's a literacy problem we just we
34:05
have phrasebook math you know it's like
34:07
trying to caught somebody with
34:08
phrasebook french it's just not a very
34:09
good idea take my word for that doesn't
34:12
work out so so um so part of it is that
34:17
we have a limited conception of of these
34:19
disciplines I fell in porush you and
34:22
what I'm marking foreign it's implicit I
34:24
think it might understand from what I've
34:26
read about South Korea's schools and
34:28
what used to been telling us is you need
34:30
a broad curriculum that recognizes that
34:32
education has a whole range of functions
34:35
and that we have to address physical
34:38
development spiritual development our
34:40
emotional development and all of that is
34:43
tied it with the
34:44
a bigger view of consciousness and
34:46
therefore you need a skull-cracking
34:47
which has the arts the humanities the
34:50
sciences technology not incidentally not
34:53
in a hierarchy but equally and Co
34:55
equally important it's important for
34:58
every reason and also because for some
34:59
kids that's where their real lives are
35:01
going to lag that's where they will
35:02
discover themselves most fully at the
35:04
second part of Education is pedagogy
35:07
which is how we aim to teach people
35:09
these things and I think you're right i
35:10
mean the pedagogy teaching is the most
35:14
important part of it I mean the reason
35:16
sadguru is having the effect is having
35:18
on the world is because he's such a
35:19
brilliant teacher teaching is what this
35:21
is about and teaching is not something
35:25
that can be reduced to direct
35:26
instruction teaching is not about
35:29
telling people what to think it's
35:31
facilitating knowing it's creating
35:33
conditions where people will come to
35:35
understand for themselves by probing
35:37
them question them raising their
35:39
curiosity probing them so they might go
35:41
in a direction giving them some tools
35:42
some techniques and to reduce it to a
35:45
process of development of delivering
35:47
information to people I I really don't
35:50
like this language has got into
35:51
education of delivering the curriculum
35:53
it's like education some branch of FedEx
35:56
you know it's it it's not that great
35:58
teachers know that instruction may be
35:59
part of it but the larger part of it is
36:03
enabling facilitating peaking people's
36:06
curiosity engaging them and inspiring
36:09
their imaginations and seeing the
36:11
possibility in something it's a very
36:13
sophisticated process and one of the
36:16
reasons that our education systems
36:17
stumble is precisely because we've
36:19
demeaned the profession of teaching we
36:20
haven't respected in the way that we
36:22
showed we don't compensate people in the
36:25
way they need to be in order to
36:27
concentrate on the job and do it
36:28
properly and you know and the best
36:30
teachers aren't let's say the ones with
36:31
the most degrees on the contrary I mean
36:33
I know all kinds of very smart people
36:34
with degrees who can't teach at all and
36:39
it's the big mistake that we've made and
36:41
the third bit of Education is assessment
36:43
well assessment is important I can't
36:45
think of any education process doesn't
36:48
benefit by people making assessments of
36:51
it but assessments not testing
36:53
assessment is about making judgments of
36:55
what's going on and whether it's
36:56
worthwhile or it isn't and how people
36:58
all great teachers do that they're
37:00
sensing whether this is happening or not
37:01
you know and you don't give people
37:03
numbers for that and what's happened to
37:05
think in America is that we've end up
37:06
with a very narrow curriculum which is
37:08
being compressed because that there was
37:12
a piece of legislation passed here was
37:15
it 20 years gonna almost call No Child
37:18
Left Behind which is one of the great
37:21
pieces of modern irony and what happened
37:25
was that the the government decided that
37:27
America was falling behind in the
37:29
international race and education and we
37:31
had to the country have to compete and
37:33
the children were the foot soldiers in
37:35
doing this and and that the way
37:37
standards were to be raised was through
37:39
standardized testing it's a terrible
37:40
mistake to confuse standardization with
37:42
raising standards I think but then what
37:44
happened was they released this
37:46
opportunity to the publishing companies
37:48
I looked at this recently so on the one
37:52
hand you've got conformity is one of the
37:54
big principles of the current system
37:55
well if you want conformity then you
37:58
need compliance and that's what the
37:59
standardized testing movements about and
38:02
this is a business that's the point it's
38:04
a business and it's it's really stifling
38:07
our children at the moment in 2013 we
38:10
looked at some of the figures the
38:13
National Football League in America
38:16
which is not of course football as we
38:24
know I'm a soccer friend exactly exactly
38:28
and we have to call it a soccer because
38:30
they appropriated the word football it's
38:31
not right tell me you're from what
38:33
you're not from Leicester I'm from
38:35
Liverpool it's near enough you know it's
38:39
rugby isn't it in Armour so
38:46
but the NFL force a nine billion dollar
38:51
business in 2013 the US domestic cinema
38:55
box office in 2013 was an 11 billion
38:58
dollar business in the same year the
39:01
education testing and support industry
39:03
in America was a 16 billion dollar
39:05
business
39:06
its massive you know it's so it's a
39:09
business and and that's what squeezing
39:12
the life out of our kids that what what
39:13
the we as I'm saying this is the
39:14
government's have taken the view that
39:15
the way you raise standards is by
39:20
focusing on the curriculum and on
39:22
testing and the opposite is true the
39:24
only way you improve education is by
39:26
focus on teaching because in the end
39:28
it's children who are trying to learn
39:30
it's students you're trying to get
39:31
students to expand them to learn and
39:33
that's an expert personal job as soon as
39:36
we lose sight the fact that this is a
39:37
very personal process of cultivating
39:41
interest in curiosity and talent and
39:44
ability and all of those things and an
39:46
awareness of the world around you
39:47
if we lose sight of that and the role of
39:50
teaching then we end up in the mess that
39:52
we're in but the good news is you this
39:54
can be changed it is being changed but I
39:57
just want to say to that and a lot of
39:59
what you talked about I absolutely
40:01
totally agree with I've mean I grew the
40:03
most of it I'm not saying there's
40:04
somebody I just think it's nonsense you
40:05
know everything but but this couldn't be
40:13
more important with a PhD I expect
40:19
exactly I'll grasp all of it
40:27
but it couldn't be more urgent you see
40:29
one of the figures Yuko tonight I do too
40:31
is that we currently face on earth
40:36
challenges which are without precedent
40:39
in the history of humanity
40:41
we have on the one hand you have
40:43
exponential growth in technology and its
40:47
impact on culture on economy on the way
40:50
that people live it's revealed all kinds
40:53
of possibilities many of them
40:54
miraculously good as you said there are
40:56
things were capable of now we couldn't
40:57
even contemplate it 50 years ago the big
41:01
problem is that our spiritual
41:03
development seems to be liking a long
41:05
way behind our technological capacities
41:08
secondly the population now is
41:10
accelerating at a point where what we
41:13
were already the largest generation in
41:16
the history of humanity for most of
41:17
human history there's nobody around
41:18
really it took a whole of history to get
41:21
to a billion people in 1800 in 1930 was
41:25
too bit in 1970 is 3 billion between
41:29
1970 and 2000 the population the earth
41:32
doubled from 3 to 6 billion right after
41:35
the Summer of Love as it turns out you
41:38
can't tell me it's a coincidence but and
41:41
we're now at 7-7 point four billion
41:44
heading for 9 billion by the middle
41:46
century and we don't know if the earth
41:47
can handle it actually we know that
41:49
count there was a really good program on
41:51
the BBC a few years ago about how many
41:54
people can live on earth it was called
41:56
how many people can live on earth and it
42:01
was just presented by David Attenborough
42:04
they're very good at titles of the BBC
42:07
but they concluded this that if if
42:12
everybody because we all need you've
42:14
made the same point cycler they we all
42:16
need food fuel and water to survive and
42:18
an air to breathe and if everybody on
42:24
the earth they concluded consumed food
42:28
fuel and water at the same rate or seven
42:32
half billion people at the same rate as
42:34
the average person in India the earth
42:36
could sustain a maximum population of
42:38
fifteen billion people so we're halfway
42:41
there was seven half billion people
42:43
because we don't all consumers they do
42:45
in India they said if everybody in the
42:47
earth consumed at the same rate is the
42:49
average person in North America the
42:52
earth could sustain a maximum population
42:53
of 1.5 billion over five times past that
42:57
that's on current methods of production
42:59
and consumption so we are heading to an
43:02
abyss here and and if we don't change
43:05
course by the middle sense you're going
43:06
to need four more planets to make this
43:08
work now the interesting to me is as I
43:11
noticed you that these problems aren't
43:13
being caused by the rest of life on
43:15
Earth they're being caused by human
43:16
beings and it's a problem of
43:18
consciousness and of creativity we've
43:20
created these problems so we either have
43:22
to by written a lot of people are
43:25
thinking they're being creative whatsit
43:27
by the reproduction a lot of people are
43:29
thinking they're creative yes that's
43:31
right well that's right you know people
43:33
talk about saving the planet and I think
43:36
the general conclusion a Sabrina the
43:38
planets going to be fine
43:39
you know the planets been around for
43:40
nearly five billion years it'll shake us
43:41
off like a rash you know which we tried
43:45
humanity not so good you know we're
43:46
going to stick with bacteria they're
43:47
fantastic
43:49
but it's a serious thing that there's a
43:51
very good observation by HG Wells you
43:53
know the science fiction writer who said
43:55
that civilization is a race between
43:58
education and catastrophe and there's
44:01
some truth in that education the sense
44:02
of no developing our capacities our
44:05
awareness and our understanding of
44:07
ourselves and of each other and of the
44:09
world around us if we don't find if we
44:11
don't take seriously these principles
44:14
then were condemning our children are
44:15
very very bleak future and the idea that
44:17
all this can be solved through fueling
44:19
the profits of the testing companies is
44:21
hard to comprehend that anybody takes it
44:24
seriously it's a it's a case of terminal
44:27
myopia and so to me it's an it's an
44:30
issue at every level it's personal it's
44:32
about our children it's about ourselves
44:33
it's our communities but it's about the
44:35
larger enterprise that humanity is part
44:38
of and it really couldn't be more
44:40
important and the principles that I know
44:42
you embody in the schools are exactly
44:44
the right ones it seems to me that
44:46
that's what this is about it but there
44:48
isn't a single way to do it as you said
44:49
there's no one perfect school there's no
44:51
particular way to do circumstances very
44:53
but there are some principles it's about
44:55
conditions it's about having a holistic
44:57
view of humanity of how children's
44:59
growth and potential recognizing the
45:01
power of teaching and recognize that you
45:04
need to get these balances right and
45:05
that we can do it but it couldn't be
45:07
more importantly we get on and do it a
45:09
lot of it has been articulated by Ken
45:12
but what I would like to say is in terms
45:15
of my experience of school I I went to
45:24
school only when it was absolutely
45:25
necessary I had very innovative ways of
45:32
staying away from school because right
45:40
from my childhood one thing that somehow
45:43
got stuck in my head was if someone is
45:46
saying something which means something
45:48
to them however simplistic or
45:51
stupidities I'm willing to pay out a
45:54
full attention but if someone is saying
45:57
something which doesn't mean a damn
45:59
thing to him or her but it's some big
46:01
stuff I am NOT
46:02
interested in that because if you're not
46:04
interested in that why should I listen
46:06
to something that you are not interested
46:08
in so essentially this instruction
46:13
business comes from this when you think
46:16
you need to instruct somebody you have
46:18
assumed that those whom you instruct are
46:21
of a lower intelligence than yourself
46:23
which is a serious mistake that is
46:26
sufficient scientific data to show
46:28
everybody every one of us over thirty
46:30
years of age are not as intelligent as a
46:33
six-year-old child who's just coming to
46:36
the school the substantial proof to show
46:39
that only reason why we are looking out
46:42
to be smart is because we have
46:44
information and the child does not have
46:46
information so we just showing off this
46:48
information in the form of instruction
46:51
if if we bring the teacher training
46:54
process completely take away this word
46:58
instruction and bring inspiration and
47:01
transmission as a way of life for the
47:05
teachers every school system could
47:08
become a fruitful process whatever the
47:10
thing because I don't believe we can
47:12
transform all the systems around the
47:14
world but in some way if you bring
47:17
inspiration and ability to transmit
47:19
whatever really matters to them then a
47:22
child would sit up and listen for sure
47:24
as a part of this in our schools we made
47:29
it you know our school is a seven day
47:31
school there's no holiday and no no
47:34
weekend this may be shocking for America
47:37
because thank God it's Friday is the
47:39
philosophy if if one knows the joy of
47:46
learning I don't say why would they want
47:49
to take a break well activity needs to
47:53
be adjusted according to you know the
47:57
child's ability to do things so in a
48:00
month we have four to five activity days
48:03
which are not determined it's always a
48:06
surprise for a child the child will
48:09
never know when is the activity day
48:11
today when they come today could be
48:13
activity day certainly tomorrow you come
48:15
again it's an activity
48:16
they next 15 days it's continuous
48:18
academic day but I gotta make so very
48:21
well open with arts music everything to
48:23
such a point I found that when they come
48:26
to in India system I don't know it's the
48:28
same here probably they do first 10
48:30
years from first standard to 10th
48:32
standard
48:32
and then there's 1112 which is like a
48:35
pre University kind of thing once they
48:38
come to 1112 they all want to get into
48:41
professional colleges in India you don't
48:43
get into your professional college
48:45
unless you have 99.5 percentage okay the
48:50
Delhi University has the legend of
48:52
refusing children who got hundred out of
48:55
hundred where are they supposed to go I
48:59
don't know they got hundred and they
49:01
refused because there's no space for
49:04
them so this marks madness will catch up
49:10
and the parents will go on overdrive and
49:12
we have spent 10 years bringing art
49:15
music culture into their lives
49:18
everything will be dumped and just
49:20
mathematics and science is being done
49:22
whether they like it that they don't
49:23
like it so in the last two years I made
49:26
this eleven twelve into three years I
49:29
said it's three years if you want to
49:31
come you come otherwise you'd leave it
49:33
because we invested so much in art music
49:37
culture everything now the moment you
49:39
come to sixteen years of age you drop
49:41
everything and go into professions you
49:44
are a doctor who cannot sing you're a
49:47
dangerous doctor believe me yes you're
49:52
an engineer who doesn't understand the
49:54
engineering of your own body that's why
49:56
you don't dance if you if you did know
49:58
the engineering of your body very
49:59
effortlessly you would know how to move
50:01
so we made this into two years into
50:06
three years so people said one year
50:08
later my children will go my neighbor's
50:10
children are already in engineering and
50:12
medicine I said this how it is this not
50:14
a race education is not a race one year
50:19
later what's your problem you are not in
50:21
that condition he has to earn a living
50:23
at this age one year later he will go
50:26
more mature and more complete so we did
50:29
this and
50:30
the amazing thing is almost 90% of the
50:33
parents wonder children back in the
50:35
school one year extra for the same
50:38
education but we brought many aspects of
50:41
leadership management business which are
50:43
not in the curriculum and above all
50:46
music art theater in a big way and it's
50:50
working out wonderfully for the children
50:53
they're coming out much more rounded out
50:55
and when the school started the first
50:59
question that came was naturally me
51:03
being Who I am
51:04
because education is not my full-time
51:07
involvement so people said the service
51:10
of guru you're going to give them a
51:12
spiritual teaching I said the spiritual
51:14
teaching is for the stupid who lost life
51:16
sense people like you I said to the
51:20
parents people like you who lost the
51:23
fundamental life sense you need a
51:25
spiritual teaching if you allow human
51:29
intelligence if you know how to nurture
51:32
human intelligence without influencing
51:34
it because teachers thinks they have to
51:38
influence parents think they have to
51:40
influence religious teachers of course
51:42
they want to influence intelligence need
51:46
not be influenced it just needs to be
51:48
inflamed all the time but everybody
51:51
wants to influence this wanting to
51:55
influence human intelligence comes from
51:57
I think in these parts of the world
52:01
there is a religious thread in the
52:03
education system a very strong sense of
52:06
opposites something is God something is
52:09
devil something is heaven something is
52:11
hell something is evil something is good
52:13
this is so strongly set up in people's
52:15
minds naturally they want to influence
52:17
because you think they will join the
52:19
other party like how the two political
52:23
parties in the country look like two
52:24
religions as far as I am concerned the
52:26
language that's being used on the news
52:28
channels in my perception the political
52:32
parties look like two different
52:33
religions to me because it is such
52:37
strong opposites no that's not what a
52:40
democracy was about the amok recei means
52:42
today you could odd for this tomorrow
52:44
for that as it was necessary you would
52:46
shift no more shifting people are
52:48
already clearly identified this is mean
52:50
that is you finished maybe the people
52:52
who were telling me only 6% travels next
52:56
47 47 % 94% is fixed as to different
52:59
religions in the country this is very
53:04
much present in the education mechanism
53:06
that we have strong sense of opposites
53:09
this is where I think there is something
53:12
that education systems in the world can
53:15
pick up from the east where we don't
53:16
have a strong sense of opposites because
53:20
our gods are Devils also our Devils have
53:22
gods also somebody who looks like this
53:25
is what is beautiful what is ugly you
53:27
cannot determine in the East because
53:28
everything is one big happening I think
53:33
if you want to nurture human
53:35
intelligence this strong sense of
53:37
opposites have to go there is nobody in
53:40
this room who is 24 hours good or 24
53:44
hours bad isn't it you can confess me
53:51
nobody is 24 hours good or 24 hours bad
53:54
it's just when you're conscious you
53:56
function in a wonderful way when you're
53:57
unconscious you might do something lousy
53:59
this happens to every human being now
54:02
instead of recognizing that fundamental
54:05
quality of the human being and how to
54:07
nurture this because the basis of our
54:10
intelligence is just this that we can do
54:14
this or that if you are another creature
54:16
which doesn't have the same level of
54:18
intelligence as the human being has a
54:20
tiger will only do that we know exactly
54:23
what he will do a hyena will only do
54:25
that a buffalo will only do that it's
54:27
all fixed a human being can do just
54:30
about anything that is where the
54:33
intelligence comes in that an active
54:35
intelligence would choose an unconscious
54:38
and a kind of conditioned intelligence
54:44
will tend to do a certain thing the
54:46
purpose of education is to decondition
54:48
the intelligence so that it becomes an
54:51
active intelligence adapting to the
54:53
situations doing the right thing for the
54:55
situations in which we
54:56
exist not positions that we have already
54:59
taken that is the essence of
55:01
intelligence but today in some way into
55:04
education system is trying to condition
55:08
the intelligence this way or that way
55:09
because I think there is a strong thread
55:12
of religion in the background though it
55:14
may not be spoken I see that everywhere
55:17
there is a strong sense of opposites
55:19
very strong opposites which cannot meet
55:28
not be too rigid in one way or another
55:30
so can you say the curiosity is the
55:33
engine of achievement and so I'm
55:36
wondering what happens for curiosity as
55:37
we grow older and how do we get it back
55:40
and sustain it and how to be cheap and
55:44
when you go through different methods
55:45
for reaching this but in terms of people
55:47
are blind dating out of curiosity
55:54
that's one reason and if someone wait
56:14
and aware how do we hold on to that as
56:17
the material
56:19
continue their children inspire us all
56:22
the time there we learning with them all
56:24
the time but as adult learners what not
56:30
to comment if I may first on what
56:32
sadbhir says about and the opposites I
56:35
think this is absolutely right
56:37
you know we've what the Western rational
56:42
view is very much that thinking is a
56:45
process of making distinctions it's not
56:49
the whole logic enterprises about you
56:50
know this it's that it's fine chopping
56:53
seeing differences between things and
56:55
making things into categories I remember
56:58
writing you know that the whole and it's
57:01
been a brilliant success in all kinds of
57:02
ways I'm not saying it's been without
57:04
its benefits of course not
57:06
we live off the fruits of rationalism
57:08
all the time but a really good example
57:10
to me is this the the whole taxonomic
57:13
process that developed in the 18th the
57:16
19th century is in the natural world
57:18
gave us an amazing system of classifying
57:22
natural things into into into Genesis
57:26
and into species and subspecies Linnaeus
57:29
spent a long time figuring out all these
57:31
different classifications and if you go
57:33
to a Natural History Museum you see all
57:35
of this at work you know if you go into
57:37
a Natural History Museum you can go into
57:39
a room and I've done this it's got
57:42
nothing but butterflies in and it's very
57:45
impressive you see all these butterflies
57:46
in cases against the wall pin to the
57:50
back dead you know but they all in
57:54
species you know the big ones at the top
57:56
small ones down at the bottom go to
57:59
another room you've see the beetles not
58:01
the beetles other people's or classified
58:05
and it's a very interesting way to think
58:07
about it it's a way of studying these
58:09
things but if you leave the Natural
58:11
History Museum go into the countryside
58:13
you don't see all the butterflies flying
58:16
in formation but the big ones at the
58:17
front and the small ones of the back
58:19
then the beetles all in some separate
58:21
part of the field keeping their own
58:23
company in actuality in life these
58:26
things all mixed up with each other they
58:28
cross pollinate the environment that
58:31
they all depend upon that
58:32
the principle of economy it's about
58:34
relationships is not about separate
58:36
categories and for example in our
58:39
installs we divide the arts and the
58:41
sciences but it's just a device because
58:45
in the world all the scientists I know
58:48
are deeply affected by aesthetic
58:50
interests look at the work of engineers
58:53
look at the nose contact one ask you
58:56
later if it may if you have time the bat
58:58
dance I'm a big advocate for dance and
59:02
in most school systems dances out of the
59:05
picture and tiny though because we need
59:07
to spend more time on math and I think
59:09
dances is important as math but it's not
59:13
separate from it
59:14
these things are integrators no you can
59:17
talk about your liver in your kidneys as
59:18
separate entities but they only function
59:21
together it's the only way actually
59:23
makes sense you know if you take your
59:26
liver out and put it on the table it's
59:27
not doing a very good job at that point
59:29
you know there's something wrong with my
59:31
liver yes there would be it's out of
59:33
your body now it's about how these
59:36
things connect that matters so much so I
59:38
think that the better way is to see that
59:43
thinking is also about making
59:45
relationships and making connections and
59:47
not seeing separation so we end up for
59:50
example with in school saying are you an
59:52
artist or are you a scientist it's gonna
59:53
be this or it's going to be that it
59:54
doesn't have to be a choice so why not
59:57
about creativity I often ask people let
60:00
me know hey I ought to get a life ready
60:02
but but I do ask people how creative
60:05
they think they are large groups and
60:07
it's interesting to me how many people
60:11
who are creatives so to speak will also
60:16
say then but they're not ready very
60:17
smart or people who think they're
60:19
intelligent will say they're not very
60:20
creative and actually creativity
60:23
intelligence aren't separate they are
60:26
functions the same thing creative is
60:28
about having fresh ideas and that's a
60:30
function of intelligence so when I say
60:32
crater is as important as literacy it's
60:34
it's not separate from it but creativity
60:37
seems to me to be the hallmark of human
60:40
intelligence however describe it you
60:41
know that there's something prior to
60:44
which is imagination the imagination is
60:46
the power to
60:46
into mine things that aren't present
60:48
creativity's putting that to working in
60:50
some way but the best evidence of the
60:54
power of human creativity is that we all
60:55
create our own lives you know every
60:58
human life is unique achievement there
61:00
have been a hundred billion people we
61:01
think on the planet in the past hundred
61:03
and fifty two hundred thousand years and
61:05
every single life has been different
61:06
every one because you create your life
61:09
unlike most of the creatures then and
61:11
human beings don't live as other
61:13
creatures seem to only in the direct
61:15
physical world we live in wells of ideas
61:18
and beliefs and values and cultural
61:21
practices and traditions and we know we
61:22
human beings invented virtual reality
61:25
long before oculus you know we all live
61:28
in virtual worlds
61:29
it's what the great cultural conflicts
61:31
are about when people's conception of
61:32
the world come into conflict like this
61:35
the great religions tearing each other
61:37
apart over ideas and cultivating
61:41
creativity and curiosity seem to me to
61:42
actually be paramount and it's the
61:44
starting point of Education you have to
61:46
see help people to see that many things
61:49
we think are provisional the contingent
61:50
they can be changed we can think
61:52
differently we don't need to be trapped
61:54
into our own biography we can recreate
61:57
ourselves if we wish to and that's what
61:58
as I understand a lot of this work is a
62:01
minute it's seeing giving people another
62:02
sense in another realm of possibilities
62:04
that they can come to occupy and inhabit
62:06
but it begins by enlivening the capacity
62:11
to ask questions the sense of intrigue
62:14
about the world around us and it's that
62:16
that gets killed in schools when it
62:18
comes down to direct instruction testing
62:20
and multiple-choice bubble tests it's
62:23
the very thing that should give life to
62:25
education that we kill off at the bottom
62:42
yeah I always think I have two children
62:45
and I think you know if we may use each
62:48
child like they were the found Dalai
62:51
Lama can they go to find the diamonds
62:53
okay I'd say or some village and say
62:55
you're the Dalai Lama I raised this
62:57
child to think that they are this divine
63:00
person or if we were to revere and raise
63:07
each child in that way I think that
63:10
would change the way in other words I
63:15
said earlier about how we look at kiss
63:17
and we think we know so much more but
63:20
really you know I think we're here to
63:22
serve them yeah but if you have too many
63:24
Dalai Lama's what would you do the thing
63:32
is I know this is a common word used in
63:36
this part of the world about raising
63:38
children you can't raise children
63:41
you can raise cattle you can't raise
63:43
children this is an idea you must give
63:46
up children grow up as can point it out
63:50
in the beginning you can only create a
63:52
conducive atmosphere they grow up it
63:56
doesn't matter you have two children
63:58
how old are they okay you will see as
64:03
they grow though it is the same genetics
64:07
same food same homes maybe same school
64:10
you will see one will go like this
64:12
another will go like that because there
64:15
are different ways to perceive the same
64:18
thing the receptivity in our mind is of
64:22
different ways if we have to get into
64:27
technicality of this in yoga we
64:30
recognize ten dimensions of receptivity
64:33
I'll talk about five because the other
64:36
fiber to esoteric these five are
64:40
referred to as centers of sleep
64:43
centers of memory centers of imagination
64:46
centers of right perception centers of
64:49
perversion it is there in all of us if
64:53
it comes something let's say the same
64:57
information or the same aspect comes to
64:59
all of us right now
65:01
somebody is little let us sleep you more
65:06
some of them all let the sleepy more
65:09
they will perceive it one way somebody
65:11
is deep into their memory of whatever
65:15
their experience of lives are they will
65:17
perceive it one way somebody is in a
65:20
heightened state of imagination they
65:22
will perceive it one way somebody is in
65:24
a state of equanimity they will perceive
65:26
it one way somebody has taken extreme
65:28
positions of right or wrong they will
65:31
perceive it another way so what whatever
65:35
I may give you depending upon from which
65:37
Center you receive accordingly it
65:40
becomes that so you may have two
65:42
children same home everything same all
65:44
inputs same but one will go like this
65:46
one will go like that because every
65:49
moment how they're receiving what is
65:50
coming their way so now the important
65:55
thing is as I said earlier when you say
65:57
picking up an end child and saying
65:58
you're the lai Lama you're the spiritual
66:00
teacher with all due respect to the
66:02
institution of what it is I'm saying
66:05
you're trying to influence them
66:07
powerfully an intelligence should not be
66:10
influenced and influenced intelligence
66:12
dangerous intelligence an intelligence
66:14
which is on but not influenced will
66:18
always be a solution an intelligence
66:21
which is profoundly influenced by a this
66:24
or that is always a divisive
66:27
intelligence it is me versus you it will
66:29
become strong sense of Rights and wrong
66:32
strong sense of this is it or that is it
66:34
will always create conflict however good
66:37
it may look to you say right now I'll
66:40
take an extreme example an example
66:42
you're not supposed to speak in America
66:44
for example right now there is an
66:47
Islamic state we need to look at this in
66:51
reality what it is there is somebody out
66:54
there
66:55
who believes in something which is more
66:58
precious to them than their life yes
67:02
when a man is willing to die for
67:04
something that he believes you have to
67:06
at least recognize his genuine all right
67:09
there is no better proof but the result
67:13
of that word horrendous things happen is
67:15
another thing okay the consequence of
67:18
that firm belief is another thing but
67:22
you have to appreciate this man believes
67:25
that there is something that he believes
67:28
in it is far more precious than his own
67:30
life when I say life I want you to look
67:33
at this whether it's an ant or an
67:34
elephant whatever life you take every
67:38
life holds its own life of highest
67:41
importance you try to catch a little ant
67:43
a little and does not think oh I'm just
67:46
a little ant let me die he does
67:48
everything possible to live this is the
67:50
nature of life that is so for a human
67:52
being also this life is precious for
67:54
this life but I am willing to throw this
67:56
away for something that I had believed
67:58
in I am saying the belief is genuine
68:02
okay but the result is horrendous so if
68:07
you strongly influence your children
68:09
whatever you think is right
69:07
there's no question about it they all
69:09
the figures support that view that their
69:12
kids from middle class and wealthier
69:14
backgrounds do better at school they do
69:18
better at tests kids from impoverished
69:21
backgrounds - much less well non
69:24
graduation rates are much higher in
69:26
impoverished backgrounds of which so
69:28
many more than they used to be it's true
69:30
in certain of our African American
69:35
community is in this panic communities
69:37
it's also the case that although it be
69:41
wrong to say if you don't graduate from
69:43
high school you go to jail that's not
69:46
true
69:46
obviously not people often have
69:48
wonderful lives they didn't just didn't
69:50
have to finish high school what is true
69:52
is a very high proportion of people in
69:55
jail at u6 over 60% of people in the
69:58
correctional system in America did not
70:00
complete high school so there's a very
70:04
very considerable and significant
70:06
economic dimension to all of this and
70:08
it's creating a chasm in the country
70:11
that I think you you know it has to be
70:16
addressed in in an urgent kind of away
70:21
America you know prides itself it keeps
70:25
telling itself it's the best country in
70:26
the world we have to watch this I mean I
70:31
I live here
70:32
fifteen years I'd like you know that
70:34
recently you know we'd like it here a
70:35
lot but that but nobody has a guaranteed
70:40
place anymore I mean when there's a book
70:44
written about the fate of Empires higher
70:47
called Jared Diamond it's a very good
70:50
book it's called collapse if there's a
70:54
problem for Jared it's that he gives you
70:56
too much on the cover you know he needs
70:59
to come up with a more elliptic title if
71:00
he wants to sell copies of his book I
71:02
think you know what happens to empires
71:04
they collapse we're done
71:07
ready you should have called the book
71:09
what does happen to empires read on now
71:15
BC I'm I'm from England and I'll keep
71:19
mentioning from now on just so they're
71:20
doing it if in the middle of the
71:23
nineteenth century Britain had the
71:26
largest empire in human history that
71:29
that's not jingoism it's just a matter
71:32
of historical fact when at the biggest
71:33
military program the biggest economy the
71:37
biggest colonial program if you had gone
71:41
to the court of Queen Victoria in 1870
71:44
and said this Empire will be over within
71:46
the generation you'd have been laughed
71:48
at the building but it was by 1918 it
71:53
was we'd lost a generation of people in
71:55
another foolish war we were virtually
71:57
bankrupted by it in 1939 it all happened
72:01
again and in 1945 it was finished I was
72:04
born in 1950 in Liverpool and we played
72:07
in bomb craters and we're on rationing
72:10
we had powdered orange juice powdered
72:15
eggs and powdered milk on rations from
72:18
the central government with ration books
72:19
that's how I grew up with the first ten
72:21
years it was over completely gone it
72:24
collapsed now what I'm saying is that
72:27
you know America is living a dream at
72:30
the moment which is that all this is
72:32
completely sustainable and can carry on
72:34
in perpetuity and it won't I'm not
72:38
preaching for an empire either by the
72:39
way it's just that America is the most
72:40
powerful place on the planet at the
72:41
moment
72:43
and it's the hemorrhaging generations of
72:46
children with no economic Hope no
72:49
purchase on a life that can add up to
72:52
anything so far wallowing in all kinds
72:56
of crime and drug abuse I'm come to
72:58
Chicago next week where they have
72:59
terrible problems with the education
73:00
system and to say that this isn't the
73:03
consequence of America's economic
73:05
policies is just self delusional you
73:08
know it's it's a Blake - the flagrant
73:10
disregard of the well-being of the
73:12
people that America is being hoisted on
73:15
its own petard their economically you
73:19
know it's so much wealth concentrated in
73:20
such a small group of people and so and
73:25
I'm not wishing for it aren't you for it
73:27
I don't wish it on any country it's just
73:28
that this is a very serious issue for
73:31
this country yeah that's we're in this
73:32
country we're talking about it and but
73:34
the good news is as well there are lots
73:37
of wonderful people doing fantastic
73:38
things I travel around the country a lot
73:40
I'm going to Chattanooga in the morning
73:41
that there's a whole thing to revive
73:44
their education as you were saying
73:46
empires and you talked about England
73:48
well it was a changing situation in the
73:52
world and there was a terrible war and
73:54
yes whatever but empires have closed
73:58
down without any major disasters like
74:00
World War two for example in India many
74:04
empires rose which spread right across
74:06
subcontinent and they just closed down
74:09
by themselves without any war without
74:11
any external interference and there is a
74:15
significant diffuse look at the thing
74:17
there was a time when 36 percent of the
74:19
world's economy was India where
74:21
everybody wanted to go to India and one
74:23
guy made a mistake and landed here you
74:25
know it's a celebrated mistake very
74:32
wrong perception of which direction is
74:34
which all right
74:35
you missed the sunset for sunrise he
74:42
went Western stuff east anyway but that
74:47
economy which was over 30 percent of the
74:50
world's economy just closed down simply
74:53
because they were doing so well
74:56
and they decided they need to protect
74:58
themselves
74:59
this is biggest mistake they did in
75:02
trying to protect themselves what was a
75:04
very transparent culture they tried to
75:07
become little introvert and they
75:10
successfully did it and that just pushed
75:12
it down completely then came the
75:14
innovations then came all the other
75:16
things but one of the biggest undoing
75:19
for India wheeze they became introvert
75:22
they thought they had to protect
75:23
themselves till then they never
75:25
protected themselves they embraced
75:26
everything the moment they thought they
75:29
have to protect themselves it started
75:31
going down if you protect it you must
75:34
understand the walls of protection that
75:36
you build are also walls of self
75:38
imprisonment after some time so what was
75:41
the worst thing about school for you
75:42
when you were a kid you asked him me or
75:44
him I didn't have a terrible time in
75:53
school I have to say I mean it the
75:55
school I went to kind of broadly worked
76:00
for me and the main thing was that there
76:03
were no say I went to a grammar school
76:06
you know and although I are very keen to
76:10
qualify the importance of academic work
76:12
I always rather liked it you know it
76:14
worked for me and because it's meant to
76:16
work for some people and but the thing I
76:20
dislike most about it was we were put on
76:23
a fast track at school and it meant
76:24
therefore we had to drop certain things
76:26
so I liked art at school and because we
76:31
were supposed to be taking our exams at
76:32
fifteen I would see they had teacher and
76:35
I offered to do art and he said because
76:39
I was either art or German that's the
76:42
interesting conflict was there
76:47
and I said what do you think I should do
76:51
he said it would fire you I would do you
76:53
that time said I want to do art in
76:55
Germany some of the things you can't do
76:56
art in German which baffled me you know
76:59
cuz I'd seen films of Germany in there
77:01
with pictures everywhere you know I
77:02
thought well pressingly something
77:05
Germany's capable of doing art and and
77:10
he said if I were you I'd do German I
77:13
said why he said it would be more useful
77:16
and I was baffled by it I thought why
77:19
would German be more useful than art I
77:21
mean it is useful or not said it's not
77:22
especially in Germany a minute sir
77:28
absolute bonus you know but but the
77:31
impression that somehow art was useless
77:33
that's what became clear is that the
77:36
school curriculum is divided into two
77:38
groups of subjects it still is well the
77:40
first problem is the idea of subjects
77:41
but then but if you accept that for a
77:44
moment most school curricula divide into
77:47
groups of subjects useful ones and
77:49
useless ones and the useless ones so you
77:51
know art and music and dance and so on
77:53
things that so I had to drop germ are to
77:56
do German they never worked out I never
77:59
got the hang of German and the reason is
78:01
it's impossible you cannot speak German
78:06
we know this to be true I read I tried
78:13
but Germans like left in you know it's
78:16
you have verbs that conjugate nouns that
78:19
decline the word ought has to come in
78:21
the same things that the verb has to be
78:23
then the sentence they're long sentences
78:25
you know so you can have a long compound
78:27
German sentence with the verb at the end
78:30
so if you talk to somebody in German it
78:31
could be ages you know you know
78:33
you know I mean you know who was
78:36
involved where this thing happened know
78:38
what but you've no idea what they did
78:39
until the nice word shows up tonight
78:41
does verb occurs about 15 minutes they
78:45
told that was what they were doing
78:45
actually no I did okay I went I went and
78:51
gave a talk at in Vienna when I
78:57
graduated college I went to go and speak
78:59
at this education conference and I was
79:02
picked up in at the airport in the taxi
79:05
and and the guy said to me in German
79:07
where are you from
79:09
to which I replied yesterday evening in
79:13
which I now know is a mixture of French
79:15
and German and he said are you were
79:17
English I said yes but I can do art but
79:28
it's it's funny because well when they
79:31
call me about this thing in advance they
79:33
said you know if this talk to all these
79:34
educators what you'd like to give the
79:36
your talk in English or German so on the
79:39
phone I acted like this was a big
79:40
dilemma you know because in Germany they
79:44
don't speak English anyway that's the
79:45
thing you get they'll speak English to
79:47
you so so I acted like it was a real
79:50
kind of real tear you know no I said
79:53
look I think in the end I'll give this
79:54
talk in English because I should say I
79:57
took my my oral exam in German at school
80:00
and I failed it twice twice and the
80:04
reason is that you know it's a very
80:06
complicated language it's like Latin but
80:08
if you've got a Latin translation to do
80:11
you've got till next Tuesday you know
80:14
and a pencil you know whereas in Germany
80:17
they expect a reply immediately
80:20
I just couldn't get the hang of this
80:22
thing at all
80:24
so so I did the German all exam and I
80:28
failed it though the first one because I
80:30
spent the whole exam standing up having
80:32
misunderstood the instruction to sit
80:33
down so fated or Iowa I know so when the
80:41
corn on the first I trying to give this
80:42
talk in English or German I said I can't
80:43
do in English I think they said why is
80:45
that something like there are several
80:46
reasons one is it'll be longer yeah more
80:51
more than three minutes which is my
80:53
conversational range in German currently
80:55
secondly it will deal with more
80:57
complicated issues than my favorite
80:58
things
81:01
well I'm largely confined to and thirdly
81:04
the audience won't have to keep standing
81:05
up and sitting down yeah cuz I'm still
81:07
annoyed about that yes so it was that
81:10
these choices you know I had to drop it
81:12
to sorry I didn't want to do I
81:15
we never did music in school because it
81:18
wasn't thought to be relevant to the
81:19
academic track so it's that stuff you
81:21
know I wouldn't over psychologize it but
81:25
it was that is the lack of those things
81:26
on my own education it may be think hard
81:28
about why they mattered in fact I wanted
81:30
to ask you if you don't have trance it's
81:32
now Charlie up to you but that one
81:34
things have often argued is that is that
81:37
dance in schools is as important as math
81:40
and to most Western people that sounds
81:43
like a bizarre exaggeration of something
81:46
but it's not if people are embodied in a
81:49
way are physical creatures we and I've
81:51
had the pleasure of working with a lot
81:53
of dance companies I'm the patron of the
81:55
London School to contemporary dance know
81:56
Martha Graham's company in the u.s. in
81:58
the UK and to watch dancers at work it's
82:02
the most extraordinary thing you know
82:03
the it's not just a physical activity of
82:06
course not it's a it's a holistic
82:07
activity and and I know in then one of
82:10
your schools dance is a very central
82:11
part of I remember you saying in one of
82:14
your talks that or you equate it dance
82:16
with science is that right I'm not
82:19
saying you it is a science but that the
82:21
scientific nature doesn't the way I
82:27
perceive the world and well and continue
82:30
from the question that the max asked
82:32
what is the most terrible thing about
82:34
the school I don't know because I was
82:36
not there I didn't suffer that I I
82:50
remember so well I have shared with many
82:53
people
82:53
I remembered so well that you know this
82:58
assessment that she was talking about a
83:00
big investment in assessment some 16
83:02
million in assessing children which is
83:07
annoyingly grading them this grading
83:12
life does not respect only schools and
83:16
education systems respect in the end who
83:19
does well in the world is not determined
83:22
by how much marks they got somewhere but
83:24
they're given an extra advantage because
83:27
they got so many marks so I remember
83:30
this monthly tests and are the monthly
83:32
report cards that were given out I would
83:36
see some children strutting around
83:38
because they are first second something
83:40
and some children was sitting and crying
83:42
was there afraid to go home I don't know
83:43
what they had in their report cards as
83:47
well as I was concerned whenever it was
83:50
given to me I just took it and gave it
83:52
to my dad he would open and he would
83:55
blow I just didn't know what's happening
83:58
this is a communication between my
83:59
teacher and my father I never once open
84:02
and saw what is written in it because I
84:08
thought this is something between the
84:09
two of them
84:14
because as soon as I was concerned every
84:17
test paper I always gave it empty didn't
84:21
write a word on it or a doodle something
84:23
if they insisted I wrote my name
84:26
otherwise I wouldn't write that either
84:28
and every time I would change the
84:31
spelling of my name because the Germans
84:35
pronounced J has a or Y so my name
84:41
starts with J for some time I wrote it
84:43
with Y sometimes I wrote it with W I
84:47
tried all kinds of spelling so they said
84:49
we know according to English language
84:52
they said a proper num can be spelled
84:53
any way you want it so every test paper
84:56
I spelt it differently as I felt like it
85:01
why I'm saying this is and when the
85:06
final test or exam came that I have to
85:08
go to the next class my concern was I
85:10
don't want to be left behind with junior
85:13
students I want to go with my friends so
85:16
I always passed that one so people
85:17
always wonder is six zeros in every test
85:20
how do you get to pass this one I wrote
85:23
my paper only for 35 marks which is
85:27
passing mark I write through my
85:30
education half an hour bail till half an
85:34
hour bail in India you can't get up and
85:35
leave I'm just waiting with a 30 minute
85:38
bail the moment the bell rings he'll get
85:40
up and leave because by then I've
85:42
written and I've calculated I'm getting
85:44
37 36 I'm done I'm out always you if you
85:50
look at my report cards right through
85:51
everything is that if I had 36 37 35 36
85:54
37 all subjects teachers would beg me
85:57
you may know something else please sit
85:59
down on right I said that's not the
86:01
point I got 35 I'm going to the next
86:04
class and that's all that matters to me
86:05
that's our only concern that I don't
86:07
want to be left with younger children I
86:09
want to move with my friends except for
86:12
that I had no interest in anything this
86:14
doesn't mean I had no interested in
86:16
anything at all
86:17
I paid enormous attention to every
86:22
detail of what's around me
86:24
with which I developed a certain sense
86:27
of geometry about everything by the time
86:30
I come to eight standard my mathematics
86:33
paper was divided like this it is 30
86:36
marks for geometry 30 for arithmetic and
86:39
the remaining for algebra I I never
86:43
bothered I don't understand why
86:44
alphabets and numbers are mixed up so
86:51
geometry I got 30 out of 30 everything
86:55
else arithmetic I got five that's about
86:58
it I went on because my sense of
87:00
geometry is about how everything stands
87:02
when I look at the body I look at the
87:05
geometry not at the complexion not at
87:07
the shape and form I look at the
87:09
geometry how you're sitting if I just
87:11
see how you sit and stand I will tell
87:14
you in next 10 years time what problems
87:15
you will have with your body so my sense
87:18
of geometry came by simply paying
87:20
enormous attention to anything and
87:22
everything
87:23
it grew to such a point if I just find a
87:27
leaf I could just sit like this for five
87:28
six hours at a time this is one thing I
87:32
feel we have to bring to our children
87:34
ability to attend to something whether
87:37
it's important or not important is not
87:39
your business my father being a very
87:43
high level academic excellence in his
87:46
life being a physician supposed to be a
87:49
very sick strict disciplinarian which
87:52
unfortunately or fortunately didn't work
87:54
on me every day evening 6 7 o'clock 9
87:58
o'clock we're supposed to read our
87:59
textbooks however uninteresting they are
88:02
it doesn't matter so I would open the
88:04
book like this I find a little speck on
88:08
the paper this speck would absorb me for
88:11
the next two hours without reading a
88:14
single alphabet I would sit like this
88:16
for two hours I wouldn't read a single
88:20
alphabet on the book but I would not be
88:23
looking here and there I'm totally with
88:25
the tiny little speck on the paper I am
88:28
saying this is a big mistake we have
88:31
done as I said earlier we have set
88:33
strong opposites this is important this
88:35
is not important
88:36
I think if human intelligence applies
88:39
itself to every little thing every
88:41
little thing will explore it in your
88:43
cosmos by itself this is what the human
88:46
being is here for to enhance life in
88:48
such a way that no other creature can do
88:51
it but unfortunately we have taken
88:54
strong positions this is important this
88:56
is not important so it's going away
88:58
right now the only thing that's
89:00
important is what serves our economic
89:03
engine is the only important thing this
89:06
whole desert ation about German and art
89:09
is just this what is important what will
89:12
earn you more bucks what will not earn
89:14
your money that's the question that is
89:16
the fundamental base question if we do
89:19
not remove this from our education
89:21
system there will be no education there
89:23
will only be one more manufactured your
89:44
comment about flawed enterprise as an
89:47
education is
89:51
especially how the government and
89:53
regulatory policies are influencing our
89:55
education system and America is really
89:57
the most powerful country in the world
90:00
but we have worse than some of the third
90:03
world country education system but we
90:05
also have the best universities and best
90:08
schools and we have very flawed public
90:11
school system as well as community
90:13
colleges if you are the single advisor
90:17
to the new president what policies would
90:21
you recommend so that America becomes
90:24
again that the most powerful country in
90:27
the world in our human capital and we
90:30
can make the impact moving forward well
90:35
just to say I think the there are
90:38
brilliant public schools in America and
90:43
public education is one of the kind of
90:46
jewels in the crown of America's
90:47
achievement over the past 200 years and
90:51
you know I know there's a growth in
90:53
charter schools and independent schools
90:54
and all of that but for most kids you
90:58
know public schools not their best shot
91:00
it's their only shot and getting public
91:03
schools right and not giving up on them
91:05
I think it's a really major priority
91:07
which I'd want to say to any incoming
91:10
president that there's that there's been
91:13
a clear attempt to break up public
91:15
education or at least to bring the
91:17
profit motive into it you know education
91:20
worldwide is estimated to be just on the
91:22
economic front here a five and a half
91:24
trillion dollar business it's why so
91:27
many big publishers independent
91:30
entrepreneurs are getting into education
91:32
why so many tech companies are getting
91:33
into it it's it's like another Gold Rush
91:36
and I'm not against you know people with
91:40
good interesting ideas getting involved
91:42
in education as long as we keep
91:43
remembering its children that we're
91:44
dealing with and young people and
91:46
they're not there to make people profits
91:48
and I do think it's very important that
91:51
any incoming president you know they
91:52
don't that's the first thing I'd want to
91:56
say that the second is that by the way
91:58
the community college system is
91:59
fantastic and more and more and more
92:02
people are going to give me a call
92:03
because the costs of going to college
92:05
have become so ridiculous I mean student
92:07
debt now is what 1.3 trillion dollars
92:10
more than or credit card debt so I think
92:14
I think that's the second thing I think
92:16
this it's an amazing asset in this
92:19
country but the third the third is just
92:23
the the things that we've been saying
92:24
here about the importance of getting
92:26
teaching and learning right I mean I'm
92:28
not and I don't think any of us should
92:31
be we shouldn't have as our priority
92:33
making America the most powerful country
92:36
in the world if I were in England I
92:40
wouldn't modding land or Great Britain
92:41
to be the most powerful country in the
92:42
world it it's not I think the issues are
92:44
bigger now than countries and and
92:48
national international competitions like
92:50
these aren't terribly helpful I think we
92:51
made it we need a much bigger global and
92:55
compression of view of what we're trying
92:56
to get done much more collaboration much
92:59
more integration of interests me for
93:03
example by common consent the best
93:06
education system in the world at the
93:08
moment is Finland and Finland set about
93:13
revising its education system 40 years
93:17
ago at around the same time that America
93:19
did you know America got into all this
93:21
after the nation at risk report under
93:24
the Reagan administration and America
93:27
went down the road of standardization
93:29
and testing and narrowing the curriculum
93:32
and it hasn't worked
93:34
I mean billions of dollars being spent
93:37
with no improvement to speak of massive
93:41
frustration on the part of teachers
93:42
principals disaffection among kids
93:45
hasn't worked Finland
93:47
meanwhile over the past 40 years is
93:50
creating the best education system on
93:51
earth nationally by student achievement
93:56
retention satisfaction engagement
93:59
fulfillment professional respect for
94:03
teachers satisfaction of parents but
94:06
stability of their communities it's
94:09
become an exemplary system and insofar
94:12
as they matter at all these
94:13
international league tables show that
94:14
Finland is also closer near the top
94:17
- in the in the areas are being tested
94:19
it's a fantastic system and it's the
94:23
exact opposite the Finnish education
94:25
system is not based on competition it's
94:28
based on collaboration between schools
94:31
work together teachers work together
94:33
universities work with schools with
94:35
parents there's no standardized testing
94:38
in Finland as in non well as one at the
94:42
end of high school and there's almost
94:45
100% graduation rate and it works do you
94:52
know then people say well you can't
94:54
compare Finland to America well you have
94:58
population terms it's hard to do that
94:59
because Finland has a population of what
95:01
five and a half million Americans want
95:03
310 million now but the fact is that
95:06
education in America is organized mainly
95:08
at the state level and there are 30
95:11
states in America with populations
95:12
smaller than or equal to Finland I do a
95:16
lot of work in Oklahoma there are three
95:18
and a half million people in Oklahoma I
95:20
think Vermont has something less than a
95:22
million I was in Wyoming recently I was
95:24
the only person there just me just me
95:32
and the driver looking for the entrance
95:36
so so it's not it's not that we should
95:40
all try to be Finnish and you know call
95:43
our capitols new Helsinki it's not that
95:45
it's that the principles apply and the
95:49
principles are pretty straightforward
95:50
one things that I'm going to say is we
95:52
talked about the Industrial Revolution
95:54
and the origins of Education in the just
95:56
really revolutionary it it's about
95:59
conformity and compliance and but the
96:01
real I think the real comparison is not
96:05
with industrial manufacturing it's with
96:07
industrial agriculture which also
96:09
developed at during the 19th century an
96:12
industrial agriculture completely
96:14
subverted the old organic systems it was
96:16
based on mechanization which meant that
96:19
you could cultivate single crop farms as
96:23
far as you could see and you know you go
96:24
to the Midwest it's corn as far as I
96:26
will take your it's potatoes as far as
96:28
you can see to the horizon
96:30
that was made possible by mechanization
96:32
the other innovation innovation was
96:35
chemical fertilizers which made it
96:37
possible to things to grow bigger and
96:39
faster and the third innovation was
96:43
pesticides because once you created
96:45
these big monocultural farms they lacked
96:47
the natural protectiveness that mixed
96:48
farming crates so we had to soak these
96:51
things in these pesticides to keep them
96:53
from being infested with insects and it
96:56
worked has worked for a while the
97:00
problem is that it's destroyed top soils
97:03
around the world which are eroding at a
97:05
prodigious rate it's poisoned waterways
97:07
it's for losing the oceans and it's just
97:10
it's not sustainable the whole world we
97:12
all depend upon a very narrow smear of
97:16
topsoil less than a few feet thick that
97:18
doesn't cover the whole world it just
97:20
covers part of it most of the earth is
97:22
rock or water and we without this we
97:24
can't and it's taken millions of years
97:25
for this stuff to accumulate and
97:27
industrial agriculture has is destroying
97:30
it and you see it you know it's what
97:32
happened in the Dust Bowl in Oklahoma
97:34
it's happened in other parts of the
97:35
world too the thing about this system
97:37
it's been very successful but it's
97:39
completely unsustainable it's unnatural
97:41
same thing with animals no we're keeping
97:43
animals in these terrible compounds were
97:45
pumping them full of antibiotics and
97:47
hormones to make them grow bigger and
97:49
faster and because they live in these
97:50
terrible conditions they cross in fact
97:52
so we pump them full of this stuff
97:54
the thing about industrial agriculture
97:56
it's all been based on output and yield
98:00
and people will tell you that industrial
98:02
agriculture is the interesting is the
98:04
focus is on the plant or the animal it's
98:06
getting it bigger its yield an output
98:10
organic farming is based on the opposite
98:12
principle which is they don't focus on a
98:15
plant they focus on the soil the exact
98:17
opposite thing if you get the soil right
98:20
through natural process of composting
98:22
crop rotation you don't need all these
98:24
pesticides and you don't need to keep
98:28
renewing the soil it does that itself
98:30
and the organic farmers know that if you
98:32
get the soil right the plant will be
98:34
fine don't focus on the flat plant
98:36
focus on the conditions of growth and
98:38
the same thing is exactly happened in
98:41
our school system I think we've had
98:42
industrial systems we've been focused on
98:44
output on yield we've created sterile
98:47
inhuman conditions in our schools where
98:50
people are not learning even though no
98:52
we're getting data and so on and along
98:54
the way what we've done is eroded the
98:57
culture of learning and all schools know
98:59
and it's um sure it's true also if you
99:01
get the culture of the school right get
99:03
the culture right you know then things
99:07
grow and it's applying those organic
99:11
principles and if if we can get all
99:12
schools to do that then the problem will
99:15
start to write itself I mean what can
99:18
just now said is the most important
99:21
aspect that is education is not a
99:25
production line it's an organic
99:28
happening at the same time from the
99:32
question she asked see you cannot create
99:36
an education system independent of the
99:39
society in which we exist some ideal
99:41
system America is America as he said
99:46
some principles from Finland you can
99:49
take but Finland is protected by oceans
99:52
and all sides and it is what it is and
99:55
cold also prevents lots of things
99:58
America is what it is children are not
100:01
just learning from their teachers
100:03
they're learning from the street they're
100:04
learning from the culture around so you
100:07
cannot ever develop an education system
100:09
independent of the ecosystem that's
100:12
happening are we as a society willing to
100:16
in some way cultivate the ecosystem in
100:20
the society which is suitable for a
100:22
child to grow up in the best possible
100:23
way is a question that all of us should
100:26
ask are we going to do what we like to
100:28
do or are we going to be conscious of
100:30
how this will impact future generations
100:32
every action that we are performing is
100:34
an important thing that we need to look
100:36
at because educating a child is not just
100:39
a teacher's business or schools business
100:42
or parents business it is happening all
100:44
the time so a more responsible attitude
100:50
towards this a larger consciousness
100:52
about this everything that you do our
100:54
children are seeing
100:56
and what will happen to them tomorrow if
100:58
they start doing what you did at 18 they
101:00
do at 12 what will happen if what they
101:02
do at twelve somebody does it at ten
101:04
what happens this is something that all
101:06
of us need to pay some attention to
101:08
because education is not just happening
101:10
in the school alone yes a certain part
101:13
is happening but I think child learns
101:16
equally from outside as he learns from
101:18
the school having said that this entire
101:23
approach of bringing creativity I think
101:31
the most important thing that schools
101:33
are missing out is exposing children to
101:36
more natural phenomena in the world they
101:41
have become an isolated information you
101:45
know cocoons of their own they are
101:47
living their cosmos through the phone
101:50
it's very very important I think every
101:53
school in wess in taking their children
101:56
out exposing them to natural phenomena
101:58
and different thought process in the
102:01
world different cultures in the world so
102:03
that there is a more homogenous approach
102:06
to intelligence rather than right and
102:09
wrong kind of intelligence why I'm
102:11
saying this particularly specifically
102:12
for American education system is I see
102:16
on the national news channel people use
102:18
words like good guys and bad guys
102:20
if somebody says such a thing in India
102:22
is finished I'm sure even in you okay
102:27
you cannot say that but on the national
102:29
news channel major anchors referring to
102:34
people as good guys and bad guys I am
102:37
saying this has to go if we really want
102:39
to cultivate an organic system where
102:42
everybody grows to his full potential
102:44
rather than being a product of a
102:47
particular system thank you

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