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Sadhguru - Earthy sense


Earthy sense | Semantinee Khot and Jacques Rocher In Conversation with Sadhguru

00:48
Namaskaaram, through this conversation we are going to embed understand one of the
00:57
most crucial questions of our time what is the relationship between business and
01:03
environment conceptually much easier to understand that one cannot draw at the
01:11
cost of others but in practice with a lot of contradictions that we see all
01:16
over businesses in their pursuit to grow use environment which like businesses
01:26
are not created by individuals but over a period of time by communities and
01:32
cultures but get used for individual profit pursuits and in today's
01:40
competitive environment business growth means cheaper more and continuous supply
01:48
of cheap raw material so I would say more than business of environment it's
01:55
become easiness of environment being very easy taking environment for granted
02:02
what in today's situation when there is competition has not just be made locally
02:10
but globally sure businesses do when they are actually aware that's not
02:18
sustainable but don't know how to deal with it
02:22
because once they start dealing with it they start becoming unsustainable
02:27
themselves so what would be your advice for today's businesses you're going for
02:33
the Jolla now to simplify that very complex
02:39
question is how to eat the cake and have it too
02:47
one thing is we must learn to eat it slowly which is not the business of the
02:54
business that you are talking about which is a business of humanity as a
02:59
whole another thing is we must be able to produce more cake out of less down
03:09
another thing is we need to reduce the number of mouths which want to eat the
03:14
cake in our effort to save environment because it is no more admit facts are
03:27
all arranged in such a way it is a clear statement if we go the way we go we have
03:32
we are going right now it's a disastrous spot but we call it business as usual if
03:39
we go business as usual the planet is in for a
03:44
very serious tender in the way it functions so people will say recycling
03:53
will help use alternative power it'll help yes it'll all help but in a very
03:59
minor way all the alternate systems of power put together right now they are
04:06
not even producing 2 percent of the power requirement in the world
04:09
that's effect having windmills having solar systems having this this is more
04:15
entertainment value than real value I'm not trying to beat it down it is very
04:21
very needed even 1% is very big I'm not trying to belittle that effort but I am
04:28
saying we are not yet looking for solutions we are only looking for
04:33
slowing down the disaster we want to gift the disaster to our children we
04:38
don't want it to happen in our time
04:43
isn't it that's what it means that's all we can do with these kind of
04:47
interventions I am NOT saying we should stop them please
04:52
to understand okay so it's not needed no it is very needed very very needed and
04:56
it's very crucial that it must be done but if we as a humanity not just as a
05:02
business we as humanity we are serious about this one thing we need to
05:09
understand is all ecological problems have come because of the responsible
05:16
breeding among human beings in the sense when I say irresponsible breeding there
05:23
is something called as natural selection which the nature is always doing because
05:30
of our intelligence and technologies now we are capable of seeing every child
05:36
that is born largely survives in most countries the infant mortality rate has
05:43
been considerably brought down in many countries though still it needs to be
05:47
worked upon in many other countries yet including India for that matter but the
05:52
important thing is medical sciences kind of postponed our death but we are
05:58
refusing to postpone the birth we have to some extent women were bearing
06:04
children at 14 now I think average childbearing age has become over 22
06:09
which is a little bit of postponement but we know at 7 billion are 7.2 billion
06:15
it's not an effective postponement now coming to the businesses we need to
06:24
understand whatever one's business may be the problem right now is instead of
06:31
using commerce for our well-being we are driven by Commerce I will come to more
06:38
practical solutions but it's very important we understand the present
06:42
situation in which we are in at the rate at which we are biting at the cake
06:49
there will be no cake after 2530 years that's a very conservative amount of
06:56
time more drastic people say 1012 years planet has enormous capability to
07:04
recouped from the damage that it goes through but we have to allow a certain
07:09
amount of time otherwise it cannot recoup
07:13
so either we consciously handle this or Mother Earth will do it was in a cruel
07:21
manner this possibility is looming in front of us but we are in a mode of
07:29
self-destruction so I am NOT making this how to be a doom story or a doom
07:36
prediction the important thing is the gravity of what we are facing has to be
07:42
realized you don't try to lift a ton of weight with your little finger right now
07:51
that's what we're trying to do a massive a mega problem we are trying to handle
07:56
with small incentives here on day four a drowning man even has draw holding onto
08:05
a straw is seems to be a great support that's different but that's not the way
08:11
it needs to be addressed if you're serious about a solution right now what
08:17
I see in the world is that seriousness is not there we are still trying to
08:24
satisfy somebody we want to look an eco-friendly in front of somebody else
08:30
we are not looking at ecology that it is in a drastic phase right now that if we
08:37
do not do the corrective action right now we will pass on a legacy which we
08:43
will be ashamed of and we for which we will be accused and hated forward by our
08:48
children for the next generation of people is it all in the hands of
08:53
business no it is not in the hands of business alone but business can play a
09:00
significant role like you you have made a business out of ecological solutions
09:08
that's wonderful because making a business out of it is very important
09:13
jack is doing something as a contribute for you that's a business it sounds I
09:20
think it's important that it becomes a business because then only it is
09:24
sustainable we're talking about sustaining the ecology but first of all
09:28
the business has to sustain itself if any human activity has to sustain itself
09:34
the two parties involved in it both should benefit only then you can sustain
09:40
the activity whether it's the business of mega interactions between
09:45
corporations or nations or within communities or even between two human
09:51
beings if your marriage has to work it should be beneficial to both the people
09:54
if it's only one person being benefited it's not going to be there for long
09:58
isn't it so in that sense it is best that every
10:03
ecological solution becomes a kind of a business because only then it can be
10:10
sustained or a period of time what can the businesses do other
10:15
businesses whose business is not ecology but they have some other business now
10:20
the engine is roaring somewhere they know that it is causing damage to
10:25
ecology but you can't stop the engine all of us need the engine to roll we all
10:31
want the engines in the world to be roaring even if it stops for a moment we
10:36
will all complain so we are in this mode where we still the humanity as a whole
10:44
has still not faced the reality the way it is probably this is the unfortunate
10:50
way of the humanity the disaster has to strike then only they will know so the
10:56
larger humanity this could be true but the more aware humanity humanity which
11:01
is in the positions of responsibility and power this part of the humanity has
11:08
to act now but right now we are doing a theological awareness all over the world
11:14
and in common humanity to act but humanity
11:18
which can make a difference that small segment which is which holds the power
11:22
of the world that is not yet acting for whatever political reasons military
11:28
reasons economic reasons all kinds of reasons and one reason I feel is the
11:34
Democratic setups that we have lot of leaders are refusing to have long term
11:40
vision their vision is only for four years and five years beyond that people
11:45
are not thinking they want to produce maximum results in that they are not
11:49
thinking very long so it is the Democratic setup of the world so some
11:54
kind of international law which we are working towards working towards
11:59
endlessly working towards it should just take a day to arrive at it if all of us
12:04
were willing but it's going on so where does the business fit in into all this
12:09
before we get into these larger issues I would like to take it back to the way
12:15
businesses are conducted yes cakes have to be made cakes are needed but the way
12:20
cakes are made can we bring some difference in that
12:23
even the ecological solutions that you're talking about say using wind to
12:27
produce energy instead of building dams to debilitate people or nuclear energy
12:33
which can be apparently very dangerous or cold in thermal power plants if wind
12:39
energy is done in a way that does not consider local communities interest even
12:47
wind energy we will not be able to produce for too long we had a lot just
12:51
about see I was just about to make a proposal to you for that I want to make
12:57
the proposal very public so that you can't go back when I know three years
13:02
ago you did advise and we had a conversation and we talked about the use
13:07
of land around turbines we said that even if we just harvest rainwater in the
13:12
areas around turbines the groundwater levels improve soil moisture improves
13:16
for the cultivation is possible local cattle get more and healthier
13:21
and give more milk and local people then don't hate wind energy companies to
13:26
acquire land because these ecological solutions are seen by governments and
13:31
the bodies that you're talking about as much better than extractive industries
13:36
at the same time even those green sector industries will have to think about
13:42
social sanctions and social sanctions will come only when the cakes are also
13:48
available for them to taste so I told you that land could be used to enhance
13:53
the rural life in a tremendous way absolutely so we are now actually we
13:57
have for development we have organic agriculture plots there is definitely
14:04
rainwater harvesting as many area then through project greenhands we want to
14:08
plant trees and we have continued to plant trees but this is where our
14:11
business started getting a different response from local communities I think
14:16
it's about not doing different businesses but doing the same business
14:20
differently but taking into account all these other interests and limitations to
14:28
be converted into opportunities so definitely this needs to be done there's
14:32
no question about it but still this is still a band-aid treatment to a
14:38
cancerous malignant situation still a band-aid treatment I'm not saying today
14:44
if you need a band-aid it should not be fixed it should be fixed no question
14:48
about that but using the land for people's well-being this is also
14:53
something I wanted to suggest to you that instead of buying these lands if
14:58
you set up these windmills even in fertile lands on a rental basis that you
15:04
pay the rent - the formula right now somebody has put up a holding or a cell
15:09
phone tower they pay 10,000 rupees rent and the farm is very happy he doesn't
15:15
mind quarter acre of land is wasted but he's getting 10,000 rupees a month rent
15:21
and his livelihood Streak taken care of now his farming is better done so we
15:26
should also think of setting up windmills in even fertile lands
15:30
agricultural plants offering them a rent
15:33
for the land rather than buying it up because a farmer may sell his land today
15:40
because of some dire requirement for economic help for monetary reasons but
15:46
when he sells inland he's not selling a land he's selling his soul after that he
15:51
doesn't know how to live and his life even if you give him market price I'm
15:55
saying even if you offer him a market price his life just goes down after that
16:00
unless the next generation gets educated and becomes urban population in the
16:06
village for him to live without the land he's a disaster space to exist for a
16:11
human being we are of course into that that we want to lease rather than buy
16:17
but government is also giving patches of land to wind energy kind of companies
16:23
solar energy companies to use those are more barren lands and even on those some
16:29
people who are at the bottom of pyramid they are cultivating and surviving for
16:34
for this kind of transition to happen it's not just companies governments and
16:38
local people but even commercial world for example this whole business of
16:43
guaranteeing a hypothecation the banks have to learn to accept these new models
16:48
of development and for that you are at the point that you had come to the
16:52
larger there are two aspects to this Simonton e one thing is if we look at
16:57
the larger the ecological situation it's one way if you're just talking about
17:01
developing alternate energy sources like wind solar whatever it's another way but
17:07
I'm saying how much ever wind you blow there's only
17:10
that much wind wind which blows upon the planet there is more Sun but we're still
17:15
not able to use it in any big way in spite of doing this right now our energy
17:21
requirements the way they are we are going to fulfill a very small percentage
17:25
definitely all these things need to be done there's no question but if it's the
17:29
serious technological question
17:33
he just changes the environment of the society we're making look the woman look
17:37
much better than he just changes the environment that way some chemicals only
17:47
or more synthetic products but they choose to make your natural resources
17:53
and packaging them which will compete with some other cheaper products and
17:59
therefore I don't know I would like to know more from you the eco-friendly
18:04
products that you make in competition with available products in the market I
18:10
am NOT an angel we I do business and I'm not an engine I have to to contribute to
18:19
the growth of the company you know we are 15,000 all over the world and my
18:25
company come from a little village in France in west of France I know that I
18:30
take lot of sink not only natural thing natural raw material from from the earth
18:37
you know I take chemical material from the others and I know that I have a
18:43
depth about the nature I am clearly I'm not a coronary guy I do business and
18:51
also I want to do something positive for the environment I'm working for cosmetic
18:59
company and working for women I have 15 million customers I remember when I was
19:07
in Kenya United Nation you know the program for
19:12
I met mrs. Wong guru Mathai she receives a reasonable price because
19:18
she plant 37 million trees in Kenya why for the emancipation of the woman what
19:28
that was the first step to say planted trees you can have a striker up over
19:35
when you meet a woman like that you want to do more and I remember I sang with
19:45
her and with secretary of the United Nation to plant 1 million trees and she
19:56
said to me you do better and say why because you have a problem you have a
20:03
problem you have a company you have 15 million woman that can urge you
20:12
and you can you can do more and know that y know I want to plant 50 million
20:19
trees 15 with you and your green ants and I am working with 20 20 20 countries
20:31
but I say you know 15 million twists it's huge
20:37
but it's nothing it just tweeters of the deforestation of our planet like Jack
20:46
said 50 million trees one thing it takes a lot of money takes a lot of effort
20:52
he's been traveling all over the place and his part is only one part for us to
20:58
put it on the ground to make it grow it takes a whole lot of things and for
21:04
the tree to grow it will take another five to ten years even to become a
21:07
reasonable thing that you can call it a tree and that's remote in three days
21:12
okay so the solution is not in just doing
21:20
this and that yes all these things have to be done it's fabulous that he's taken
21:24
this up 50 million trees and irrespective of which country it is
21:28
planting knowing that it's for the planet not for the country if you ask
21:32
any company but my experience with various other companies has not been the
21:39
same if I tell them please support this we want to plant 114 million trees will
21:47
you plant it in my state will you plant it in my village will you plant it in my
21:52
factory not understanding that the ecological work is not about my part of
21:59
the world and your part of the world wherever it is planted everybody will
22:03
benefit from this and tree planting is most useful only if it happens below 30
22:10
degrees latitude it has maximum benefit if it happens from the equator to 30
22:15
degrees latitude that means in the air segment of Africa
22:19
segment of Asia and South and America are the places to plant we have
22:23
approached just about every people who are running Airlines in this
22:28
country automobile industries we worked out enormous plans for them just saying
22:34
say suppose you drive a car let's say you drive a Maruti car average if you're
22:41
driving in a year about ten thousand kilometers this is how much carbon
22:45
monoxide you release this is how many trees if we plant when the car is
22:50
produced if you plant this many trees this car is taken care of whatever
22:57
pollution that car will do in the next ten years that's taken care of by what
23:02
we plant and that cost can be divided between the manufacturer the dealer and
23:10
the customer you can load it on all of them and it's not much it is all a
23:15
question of 100 rupees hundreds of rupees not thousands of rupees and I'm
23:20
sure the customer will be willing to pay knowing fully well when he drives he's
23:24
compensating for what he's using up so you either we do that now consciously or
23:32
a time will come we will have to put a meter on your nose how many breaths per
23:37
minute are you taking we'll have to charge you and those who cannot pay give
23:48
it a choice today desirable is that there is gas that we have passed the
23:54
time of choice it has to be a lot but the regulatory controls aren't working
24:00
either there are many things that you have to do this when there is reporting
24:05
to be done on sustainability that have you upset so many emissions there is
24:10
there are many people in the in the reoli business of environment they are
24:13
assurance companies they give you standards they give you certificates
24:17
that yes you have done it because there is a whole industry that is surviving on
24:23
giving certificates that you are eco-friendly
24:26
they are the ones who will come and say yes his meter was only reading this much
24:30
and his offsetting is that much so making it choice also is not working
24:35
making it mandatory is not working now mandatory making it mandatory will have
24:41
to work it is just it's half-hearted but then whose job is it see right now if
24:47
you make any law the first Lobby which opposes it is definitely the business
24:53
because they are thinking of this quarter's balance sheet this has to
24:59
change many of if we if you change this many of
25:04
them may sink many businesses will disappear if you bring in strict
25:09
environmental laws we know by our experience here Interpol which is the
25:14
hosiery Center many many dyeing units have just died because they insisted on
25:22
just recycling the water or at least purifying it to some extent before they
25:27
release it treating it before they release it otherwise you know if you put
25:32
a dig if you dug a well in anywhere around telepods you were getting
25:36
multi-coloured water depending upon that day what color t-shirts they're making
25:41
now they put this law because of hundreds of businesses just sank the
25:48
reason for these businesses to sink is not the way for us to understand that
25:54
environmental laws are against business the reason for these businesses to sink
25:59
is these businesses are running on RAM shackle infrastructure they are trying
26:05
to make a business out of nothing yes that is enterprise I understand but even
26:10
Enterprise has to stand on four legs those enterprises which are tottering on
26:15
a single leg they will all fall and that has to happen we can't help it that has
26:21
to happen survival of the fittest will everywhere go I mean everywhere it's a
26:26
law isn't it so making it a law on many levels is most important and and forcing
26:34
the law is not going to be easy but it's easier to enforce it on the businesses
26:39
then on the common people if you make a lot to enforce it to the whole
26:42
population that's going to be an enormous task and we won't be successful
26:46
in that but to enforce a law upon the business
26:50
is easy because they're always in the scrutiny they are always in the scanner
26:55
so it's easy to scrutinize them and make sure they pay for it if they don't
26:59
follow the law don't put them in the prison just make them pay for it
27:03
financially so those who are not willing to put up the treatment plant they will
27:08
be willing to pay the fine let them pay the fine at least you will have
27:12
stringent laws and you know monitor those their performance the support
27:18
services in countries like ours are not sufficient that is the whole thing right
27:24
now if you have failed to run a hosiery unit successfully you can go into waste
27:29
management you have an opportunity for enterprise but land filling is currently
27:35
so rampant and there are vendors and vendors who come and you know give you a
27:40
service of cleaning your back yard so company looks good by saying that okay
27:45
are you giving it to a lawful vendor a contract of raise disposal yes
27:51
now thereafter the vendor being often a small enterprise or even an unregistered
27:58
enterprise does not come into the control of the law that you are talking
28:02
about creating another set of law for them would mean let's so let's get this
28:08
straight there is no business actually there should be no business in this
28:12
country which is not under the law there is no citizen in this country who is not
28:17
under the law isn't it so similarly why is a business running not being under
28:21
the law so that shows that you would not administering the place yeah that's a
28:26
sin whose business it is to make sure that every business is registered
28:30
because if we were so far we were talking only about the cakes and
28:33
eco-friendly materials or wind energy but there are like people are not only
28:38
making cake they are making hazardous poisons to be sold and drunk in the
28:42
market and they are around by the same laws as people who are having more safer
28:47
products so when you register a business or a product those conditions that have
28:55
to see it's it's a humongous task actually
29:01
not it is a way we are approaching it for example I mean Tamilnadu if you want
29:07
to build any building in Coimbatore City mainly there are 14 different
29:11
departments through which you have to go through it is like having 14 lifetimes
29:18
the experience experience of shame death and retribution and being born again
29:28
before you go to the next department why why so many now you can make a simple
29:36
law these are the norms to build a building in chromaticity if anybody
29:41
wants to build a building print 2 and 5 rupee note book which can be a printed
29:45
book which if you want if I want to build a building I must read the law I
29:49
must know what's the law build accordingly only thing is you can't use
29:54
it till you get a certification when the certification thing comes it is very
29:58
simple if it is by the law he gets a certificate if it's not if it's not by
30:04
the law the building goes down and you go in
30:08
why are you scrutinizing my plan my plumbing my sanitary why are you
30:14
scrutinizing all this nonsense anyway I can give you something and not do that
30:18
anyway you can't student eyes that I am saying you just have a final scrutiny
30:23
after I've done it if it's by the law I get to use it if it's not by the law
30:27
shut it down isn't this license Rodgers they say so many many people instead of
30:35
going through this 14 birds that you were saying they take the second birth
30:38
in go back first we have to die you must understand let's go somewhere you need
30:48
to understand they are very eco-friendly people who go away to United States or
30:52
people who go to South America or Africa are ecologically very good for India
31:01
doesn't know India will change if if we export half the population India will
31:08
change dramatically that's all new business I would say there are many
31:17
societies where the biggest problem is human resource for our for India the
31:23
biggest problem is natural resource human resource is plenty not only plenty
31:28
its young we are the only country in the world which has over 600 million youth -
31:37
tremendous possibility they should go and work across the planet we can build
31:42
a whole new world with 600 million people working hard to make it happen in
31:48
the other countries they've had generations of affluence and the youth
31:51
are not willing to work they want a holiday yes
32:01
I mean I'm saying this is a cycle of things in any society they go through a
32:07
period of halflings those people are not interested in working they want to
32:11
become something else but these people have not seen aliens they want to work
32:15
wherever it is whatever it is they want to work because I want to make it so if
32:19
you do not discriminate between nation and nation if you do not cut the planet
32:23
into pieces and allow little more I know you can't completely eliminate these
32:28
things little more porosity as to wherever people want to move on this
32:32
planet let them move if somebody is looking for employment they go to United
32:36
States somebody's looking for a spiritual process they come to India is
32:39
it not a good exchange if you want to come to India you are stopping them if
32:49
you want to go to United States you're stopping them what the hell is this
32:52
about so whether businesses or migration
32:55
whoever controls this or decides policy is related to this as you said the
32:59
political will people who are minding these businesses of countries societies
33:06
they have to have this wisdom and this out rule now when we're talking about
33:12
law we definitely talking about the law makers yes yes obviously
33:18
but the reason lawmakers are today the way the businesses have grown is
33:25
lawmakers are in many ways subservient to the businesses in many ways the
33:33
businesses can play a key role if there is a change of heart in them but they
33:37
are not thinking beyond this year's balance sheet a few are thinking beyond
33:44
their many like him I'm not saying this only one there are many but not enough
33:48
still not enough to find a solution there is enough ecological awareness for
33:57
cosmetic appeal I'm sorry I don't mean any
34:04
for cosmetic appeal there is enough ecological awareness there is not enough
34:09
ecological awareness and not ecological not enough movement in the world for a
34:14
solution like he's had 50 million trees it sounds so big and so fantastic but
34:21
they will pull it out in three days I say like this but Jack will say like
34:25
this for him this is three for me this is three but it's still three the
34:35
mindsets and the worldview of both lawmakers and business leaders have to
34:40
change waiting waiting for them to change is not the way this is not a
34:45
spiritual process this is
34:51
if it's a spiritual process I create a situation and wait for them to change
34:56
but this is a disaster looming on us this is there is no waiting you have to
35:02
shoot them shoot them not with a gun but with a law you have to shoot them with
35:07
the law and appropriate love which will fix them and when I say shoot don't
35:13
think of killing you know even an injection is a short isn't it yes
35:19
agency of our environmental sustainability is so much a need for
35:23
businesses to grow still there and this young population needs hands to work so
35:27
see if you change the landscape of business some will suffer some will
35:32
drown but immediately they'll adapt and learn to do business in the new
35:37
atmosphere that we create somebody should have the courage to create the
35:41
new atmosphere so how to identify these people who have courage and make them
35:46
perform because today those and the people who should be doing these things
35:53
are subservient to one thing or the other systems you're still talking about
36:00
businesses who have the courage I'm saying businesses who have the courage
36:06
to do such things are seen by the larger business community as the stupid lot
36:13
because they're losing out on their profits because the business is about
36:18
profit now when you say you're in charge of the corporate social responsibility
36:24
you have allocated a small percentage of your profit yes fortunately your
36:30
business itself is eco oriented that's a different thing but suppose let's say
36:35
you were producing generate generators had scenes of windmills because both are
36:39
generators it is just that you're using the natural force to do that so suppose
36:45
you are doing generator sets you allocate the same amount of your profit
36:50
for CSR still I'm saying that's not the way CSR is only cosmetic in nature it it
36:58
does things for awareness but it will not create a solution it can
37:03
not create a solution simply add up all the CSR amount in the world and just see
37:08
what is the amount its peanuts you can't change the world with that but the baby
37:13
are interpreting CSR in my company as well as there are many other companies
37:17
who look at CSR as not something that you do as a frill after you do all your
37:22
business the way you want and then use little bit of your profits will look
37:26
good with your business suit alone is a different kind of business your business
37:30
itself is eco oriented you can instead of doing CSR I would I would say you
37:36
must do your business more aggressively when I say aggressively don't limit
37:41
don't limit just to wind bio energy solar energy everything in the same land
37:46
I was just wanting to propose we will create a solar panel this thing if you
37:52
give me thousand acres I will fill it with solar panels and power generate
37:55
power I'll pay you rent for your land you do
37:58
business I'm saying don't do service leave the service to me you do business
38:06
now why I'm saying this is because only then you will do it large-scale
38:11
otherwise you'll do it only this much but even even the eco friendly
38:17
businesses can be done in a way that can harm societies an environment that's
38:21
possibility for example just transport up turbines can spoil the road in a way
38:25
that local people will suffer from it that is why I am saying make a business
38:30
of all those things all you have to do is one thing is you can create fish
38:35
farms which nourishment is a huge problem in South India you can create
38:39
fish farms which all these things have already given you you can create fish
38:43
farms wherever possible we can grow trees and ask them to use it for got
38:47
reading and other things we can create solar villages out there you can if the
38:52
anyway if the wind if it is in the wind tunnel the villages you can make small
38:56
small wind turbines with each house or for the village you can build a small
39:00
one which will power the ha will it free of cost if it powers you think they will
39:04
be against you they will support you they will come and work free for you if
39:07
you provide power for the village he's paying 4 rupees a unit make him pay 2
39:12
rupees a unit he will be too happy and for the remaining 2 rupees ask him to
39:16
work for he will work for you I'm saying
39:20
businesses can be worked out on various levels which are beneficial to the local
39:25
people so that they will support and sustain
39:27
this whole process or this whole I would say this whole movement towards moving
39:32
to a more friendly way of doing echo friendly way of doing things in Europe
39:35
if you see in Northern Europe people talk about having lesser emissions
39:39
having lesser energy consumption using biodegradable products having less rest
39:46
to dispose off this is CSR CSR is not do-gooding fixing communities out there
39:51
and doing something nice to others that's some more we're up and kind of
39:54
model as they say that you earn as you want and spend a little bit for charity
39:59
that's not what is cxeh cxeh will have to be increasingly doing business
40:04
responsibly taking taking responsibility for every action that you do and it's
40:09
much easier when we talk of environment because environment is visible don't cut
40:13
trees you come to know whether it's not what I am telling you you go like this
40:17
if you go like this now jack is doing this okay tomorrow after a few years
40:23
after many years many many years okay when his hands take takes over he may
40:27
not be interested in doing it I'm not saying necessarily just as an example
40:31
I'm saying the next person in the line may not be interested in doing it so
40:35
what are you going to do with him I am saying fix the law that everybody has to
40:40
do business in a certain way this will create a certain amount of Appeal but it
40:47
will be long lasting these lawmakers who by shooting them by threatening them by
40:53
making somehow sure that these kind of laws come into our society that
40:59
businesses are not done irresponsibility by harming others but a long term
41:04
well-being of our region the lawmakers are not willing to make the loss most of
41:10
the time is it's the business lobbies which don't allow them to make those
41:15
losses whatever are those root causes whether they are in business houses
41:19
which hold the purse or a no political will that is not allowing to make it
41:25
happen or some vested interest of some individuals how to make it
41:30
happen is the thing yes laws are required stringent action is required
41:33
urgently it is required all agree now we have to make it happen in and people
41:39
like this who are very keenly listening to this conversation want solutions how
41:43
should we do it there is no one place to start one important thing is we need
41:49
responsible movements because every politician in the world every
41:55
administration in the world because today world is largely democratic they
41:59
depend upon people common people who put the word the business may have money but
42:05
the people have the vote which is a real thing at a certain point at least once
42:10
in a few a few years human beings our citizenry is a reality otherwise they're
42:15
a virtual reality they're not really there you know so when they're a reality
42:23
it is very important that we build a movement a moment which can put enough
42:28
pressure on businesses which operate in the area and on the lawmakers in the
42:35
area that unless these this these things are done normally the activists are
42:41
taking a very violent anti somebody kind of act mode you need to understand this
42:49
when you are an ecological moment you are not against anybody you are for
42:54
everybody that's the reason why you want to do this the only reason why I want to
42:58
take up ecological ecological work is you're for every life in up on the
43:03
planet not just human beings you want the insects and the worms also to live
43:08
well because you understand our life is not separate from each other our life is
43:13
an integrated and a connected life how healthy the worms are today will
43:18
determine how healthy we are tomorrow we know this very well today
43:22
so because only somebody who is for all life can't take a peak illogical work
43:27
but till now the Eco moments have always been against somebody this mode has to
43:33
change the Eco moments and activists have to change and mature into a
43:38
different level of activism it is yet to happen a few have come up
43:42
here and their green hands moments is happening one thing that we are proud of
43:46
with the green hands moment is more than what we have planted that has happened
43:51
phenomenally well because of people's support but it has bred so many other
43:55
moments so many other people have started doing this which is a wonderful
44:01
thing and the government of tamil nadu itself he is trying to outdo us all the
44:06
time now it's really really good this year we are planting 60 60 lakh or 6
44:14
million trees they are planting 64 but we will make sure our survival rate is
44:22
very good I don't know whether they can make sure but I'm sure they will also
44:26
try their best but that's good so that's what is needed that this becomes part of
44:32
everybody's life it is in the schools if the children are talking about it once
44:37
the children start talking about it they won't let their parents be something
44:40
else they will make them eco-friendly all these things not as a solution but
44:46
to become a moment to a point where the necessary loss will come without the
44:52
necessary loss there is no solution it is only cosmetic we can do it for our
44:58
satisfaction but there will be no solution I don't want to do this for my
45:03
satisfaction I want to see that there is a solution somewhere I think get away
45:09
from this because they can do it but the point will come where it will not to be
45:15
a choice anymore let's not wait until then that even that point comes turning
45:20
around it's not going to be easy it is going to be at the cost of millions and
45:24
millions of lives not just human lives there are more precious lives on this
45:29
planet than human lives why I'm saying this is today the living Earth
45:35
statistics says if all the insects on this planet die this planet has little
45:41
more than 20 years to the life on this planet has only little more than 20
45:45
years everything will disappear if the worms on this planet die tomorrow
45:50
morning all of them planet has only 8 eight years the life upon this planet
45:54
has only eight years left but if you and me to disappear planet will flourish so
46:00
I am saying in in our mind in human mind we may be thinking the life upon this
46:09
planet is human centric but life upon this planet is not human centric in
46:14
natural terms the worms and insects and the birds and animals are far more
46:19
important than human beings because we as human beings have become the
46:24
controlling power we are beginning to think that we are the most important
46:28
life so this mindset has to change we need to recognize every life as life
46:34
for this spiritual moment taking on ecological concerns becomes vital
46:40
because the sense of spiritual process is just this seeing life as life not
46:45
seeing you as you and me as me just seeing this all all this has just
46:50
manifestation of life so the reason why spiritual process is ultimately the only
46:56
solution for ecological disaster that is looming upon us ease unless humanity
47:02
begins to recognize life as life there is no solution right now all CSR's and
47:08
ecological solutions are oriented towards making human life a little
47:13
better let us use recycled paper that's not the point if you want to save
47:19
ecology the bio activity and the planet has to rise now bio activity is not
47:26
happening in your intestine so you're drinking it out of a bottle some
47:31
biological stuff some bacteria you're drinking if you drank India water from a
47:37
any place in the local pool you would get enough bacteria but you're buying
47:41
that you're buying that and drinking that now
47:52
so loss are needed loss will not come unless strong ecological moments
48:00
responsible moments which are oriented toward solutions not to beat somebody
48:05
down always moments have an enemy I am saying there is no any enemy here except
48:13
ourselves we are the enemy moments which come from this level of consciousness
48:18
that we are the enemy there is no other enemy sticking out somewhere there we
48:22
are the enemies with this if we develop large movements which are also
48:27
action-oriented because just a moment on the street is not going to help
48:31
it must be action-oriented to gain respect to respectability in the world
48:35
at the same time it's a large-scale moment only then we can change the loss
48:40
but right now the problem is from nation to nation ok I am willing to change the
48:45
law and restrict my country but what about you you are not willing to do you
48:49
want to benefit from my loss now nobody's going to do it who is to bell
48:53
the cat is the whole problem because internationally there is no one body
48:57
which can enforce at one time we were building United Nations to a point where
49:03
if something really needs to be done in the world United Nations can so say so
49:07
but that has been lost in the last 10-15 years that's been completely lost and
49:13
there is no one body everybody is talking about self-interest as nations
49:18
if nations talk of self-interest why should the individual talk of Sentri
49:22
self interests they will also talk of self-interest and now who should bell
49:27
the cat is not there yet to determine this the larger thing is it must be a
49:33
worldwide moment United planet doesn't planet is anyway United it's only human
49:39
beings like nations are India sure so I'm saying the moment should learn to
49:46
connect and make an international movement that there must be so much
49:51
pressure on the government that they will change the laws all the laws that
49:55
need to be changed will not change in one day it's a continuous work in our
49:59
lifetime if we change enough laws which are destroying in my
50:03
meant at a very rapid pace whatever activity is destroying it to the highest
50:07
pace right now fifty thousand three trees in I'm sorry in three days
50:18
in three days this one thing we can put a lot isn't it so that these family in
50:24
trees that we plant do not go waste in three days time we can make a long to at
50:30
least stop this we can't stop the generator from roaring right now it has
50:34
to roll but we can make this long like this if we plan in 25 years these are
50:39
the laws we will bring if you formulate these are the laws we need to bring in
50:44
the next 25 years step by step step by step so that it doesn't hurt us too
50:48
quickly too much of a drastic change if you do people will not take it step by
50:53
step if it changes if they understand if you give them enough time to understand
50:57
why such a change has been made and bring the next one and the next one the
51:03
poor there are to Poland for me the population we are 7 billion today in the
51:10
earth to Santiago just 1 billion and the second problem is a consummation you
51:17
know because without the human population did not solution whatever you
51:22
do they'll gobble it up see instead of trying to reduce human aspirations it is
51:28
better to reduce human population it's a much simpler thing to do so we were
51:35
planning in the villages that in the villages we want to take a volunteer
51:39
kind of thing I oath that this year in our village it will be a no conception
51:45
here no conception just enjoy your honeymoon don't make
51:53
babies but all these things will take a lot of effort and if we don't control
52:02
the population whatever you do it will go waste because the estimated
52:06
population in 2050 is 9.5 billion at 9.5 billion all of us will have to live at
52:14
40% less resource than we are right now enjoying when I say resource I'm not
52:19
talking about gold diamonds oil stuff I'm talking about water food and air to
52:24
breathe 40% less resource we will have to say that's why I said we want to give
52:30
a legacy of disaster for our children that's where we are so this is not going
52:36
to change simply because of small actions and people are trying to fulfill
52:42
themselves with little bit of action I did this I planted ten trees I did this
52:47
whatever I am saying even if I plant ten million trees or ten a hundred million
52:53
trees it is not something to be proud of or to be think it's my life is fulfilled
52:58
no because that is still not the solution it is silly to believe to
53:04
create a small solution for a huge problem and think it is a solution is a
53:08
silly way to exist what we are doing 114 million trees is not a big solution it
53:15
is a small solution it is like you're sending an ant to fight an elephant it's
53:20
a silly way to approach a problem but at least an ant is going we believe the
53:27
brave and will inspire and above all the culture of economics right now the whole
53:38
world is driven by economics the idea of economics right now our idea of
53:44
well-being itself in this country just about 30 years ago the idea of
53:49
well-being was not just economics in fact even now in Tamil Nadu if you see
53:56
if you go to a function and see a very rich man and a poor man they are wearing
54:02
the same type of no not by not by any law just like that
54:06
by social norm you will see they're all dressed the same way same white clothes
54:10
same shirt same dhoti that's the same thing only thing is he may come in a
54:14
Mercedes Benz this guy may come in a bullock cart but they'll be wearing the
54:17
same clothes and they'll sit together that culture is good because your sense
54:24
of well-being even socially is not determined by the wealth that you have
54:30
money does not decide well-being well-being is determined by various
54:35
other aspects of your life so to bring that back is what spiritual moments are
54:40
striving because if we don't bring that back there is no solution if our idea of
54:46
economics is only more more and more we have only one planet the living Earth
54:51
statistics says if every citizen on upon this planet has to have as much as an
54:59
average American citizen has we need four and a half planets but we still
55:05
have only one another one they have cited 24 light-years away we it's not
55:12
too far just 24 okay but still we don't have another two and a half planets so
55:20
the problem is not small but another way some people in a resigned way they say
55:27
it's okay nature will correct it yes for sure it'll corrected and the correction
55:32
will be reducing human populations and whenever human populations are reduced
55:39
you don't see it as a solution you see it as a disaster isn't it
55:43
when nature reduces human population do you see it as a solution or do you see
55:48
it as a disaster it is a disaster isn't it the natural disaster means
55:53
Mother Earth is not even supposed to flex her muscles she's not about not
55:58
even allowed to stretch her hands or legs if she does something 100,000
56:04
people will die because human beings are just everywhere where they're not
56:07
supposed to be even a she cannot even sneeze
56:12
if a volcano happens right then they build towns around the volcano around a
56:17
live volcano I'm saying we are too many we are wonderful but we are too many we
56:25
need to reduce our wonderfulness by 2050 if all the all the countries in the
56:34
world take this up that they will aim to reduce their populations if we do this
56:41
that itself is a great solution technologies are continuing to refine
56:45
themselves the amount of power we are consuming let's say to light up this
56:49
place is almost 1/10 of what we would have consumed 15 years ago so
56:54
technologies are improving our consumption of power is coming down if
56:58
we aim at reducing the human population which is very much actually achievable
57:03
in 40 years time you can bring down the human population at least by 25% if only
57:08
the necessary laws are done the Chinese have done it everybody comments about it
57:14
they think they think making politics out of it is a great solution but one of
57:19
the biggest impediments to bring such a loss to enforce it to make sure human
57:24
populations come down is the religions of the world they want more numbers for
57:30
their congregations their problem is there whatever morning congregations are
57:35
not full people our people have been a partying hard the previous night so
57:40
early morning they don't turn up at the congregation so they're disturbed they
57:43
want to produce more people so the religions of the world has to be
57:47
controlled the loss must control them they have no business to talk about
57:51
things for which they have no solutions yes them has restrained themselves to
57:57
whatever their expertise is they shouldn't be talking about other things
58:00
we need a law people won't shut up you need to shut them up means then you need
58:05
a law for that also so human numbers are the biggest problem
58:12
and if you look at it that way it's a simple arithmetic problem you have to
58:17
subtract you should multiply
58:21
is it so difficult to get this in India in 1947
58:30
how much potable water an Indian citizen had purple perk capita today we have
58:38
only 20% of that by 2025 we will have only 7% of that you understand that
58:47
means right now your drinking water from the bottle see that's written Siddha
58:50
Vani you know what you do Anna means she the
58:52
one in the water supply the river for us now it's coming in a bottle by 2025 in
59:01
Chennai and Mumbai you will be having bath with a bottle your morning bath
59:06
will be with a single bottle it will not be with buckets of water these are not
59:14
these are not some doomsayers predictions these are realistic
59:18
calculations it's heading that way rapidly so loss if loss have to come
59:26
first thing is the businesses have to ease the throttle a bit on the lawmakers
59:32
they shouldn't be constantly looking at profit orientation they need to look at
59:37
if businesses have to exist people have to live and if people have to live
59:42
ecology has to be good all this looks like empty philosophy which is anyway
59:47
not going to be any solution so the immediate solution is he is planting 50
59:52
million trees at least we should get them to do that many of them the
59:55
corporates who have the necessary money to do it and as you said we must involve
60:01
the local people in making it happen they must see this is not man versus
60:05
animal man versus ape all kinds of moments are coming up we need to
60:09
understand you are an ape without a tail there is no man versus ape the planet is
60:17
for all of us and we cannot exist here by ourselves our existence here is not
60:23
because of our economic activity because of the natural process that's happening
60:27
that we are living here not because of economic activity right now we are made
60:31
to believe it is because of the person ages of growth that's happening in this
60:36
country you will live well no we will live well here if everything is green
60:42
beautiful water is flowing air is pure we will live well here this idea has to
60:47
go into every human beings mind into every citizen's mind into every child's
60:52
mind and we should not have so many youth in this country what it means is
60:59
we've been breeding if sick if we we are very proud to say we have the largest
61:05
number of youth yes we have them we have to train them and make sure that they
61:09
build a better world tomorrow that's a different thing but there's nothing to
61:12
be proud of we should not continue to think we must always have lots of young
61:16
people lots of young people means they have been freshly born isn't it so it's
61:21
very important that we get these things in the right perspective I have seen in
61:26
business meetings very responsible business people openly saying we have
61:31
the youngest population so I asked them what what happened to old people they
61:36
said what about the old people no we have the youngest population I said no
61:39
no what what happened to the old people nobody gets old in this country
61:43
that's what it means that's not an that's not an accolade that you wear
61:48
around you responsible people need to be made to understand I'm when I look at
61:55
very highly placed people they have no clue about any ecological you know even
62:02
the simple statistics that are around that's available to everybody which is
62:05
everyday in the newspaper you will see people holding very responsible
62:09
positions are not even conscious about it just about everywhere in the world
62:14
it's shocking that lawmakers and others and businesspeople many of them have
62:20
never even bothered to acquaint themselves because they're busy with
62:23
something else it's very important that it sinks into
62:27
everybody so awareness campaigns are as important or action oriented campaigns
62:32
action seems to be a solution but action is not a solution because the reverse
62:38
action that's happening 50 million trees he plans in five years I will take
62:43
another 10 years to make them grow for him and somebody will remove it in
62:47
days I'm getting a European way I have a question at the beginning of last
62:55
century 20 20 % of the population lived in the city now 50 percent of the
63:03
population in the world world population live in the city I have the feeling that
63:07
the people who live in the city well in India in Europe in unit USA they are
63:16
disconnect with the nature and the the relation between the nature is I know
63:24
not spiritual but it's it's like TV you know you understand TV show what's your
63:32
feeling about sir definitely it's true at the same time on an intellectual
63:37
level probably people living in the cities are far more aware of the
63:42
ecological concerns than people living in the village in the village they're
63:47
connected to the land in a certain way but you talked to him about ecology he
63:51
has no clue what it is it doesn't matter for him chopping a tree means I'm making
63:55
agriculture happen so it is a kind of a two-way thing in the cities because of
64:01
the media because the internet people are aware of it intellectually they may
64:07
not know what is a tree but they know we need a tree any questions from the
64:17
audience yeah for every action to happen this this first need to have an
64:22
intellectual understanding and their sense of urgency
64:25
so I'm addressing this question from a larger context not just learning to eat
64:29
how to have a persistent sense of urgency now the planting trees thing
64:37
came up essentially because we wanted to save the soil of Tamil Nadu we were not
64:42
thinking of saving the world because the soil is getting destroyed so rapidly
64:48
once you destroy the soil it doesn't matter what you do what your intentions
64:54
may be you're willing to do put the whole economy of the nation into
64:58
planting trees it's not gonna work so saving the soil was
65:03
our most important person concerned that's why we went to the farmers and
65:07
told them to bring in a certain amount of trees into their farm about once
65:14
spreading awareness and identity identity is not an issue because in this
65:21
country particularly in this culture there is a very strong identification
65:26
with the land still 70% of the population is in agricultural activity
65:32
and even those people who are in the city they spend still at least I would
65:37
say 10% or 15% of the urban population in the country still goes back to their
65:43
village roots at least for a short period of time in a year so they still
65:48
have that agro connection probably in in larger I mean in others countries in the
65:55
world most of them will never go back to the village but here they still go back
66:00
because their relatives are in the village half the families in the village
66:04
so they have that identity with the land we have to exploit that identity now we
66:10
have to make that identity grow in them that your identification fundamentally
66:14
ease with the land because what you call as myself this very body is a piece of
66:19
this planet so this is this is the identification which we brought about
66:24
with project greenhands when I just this one thing just fired up millions of
66:29
people when I told them see what you exhale is the trees inhalation what the
66:36
trees exhale is your inhalation what does that mean that means half your
66:40
lungs is hanging out there it's not a tree is one part of your lung
66:48
when they when they saw something so simple yes it's true I cannot breathe
66:53
with these lungs unless that lung is breathing so that is
66:57
my extended lung so protecting that becomes natural
67:01
so this identification is already there we have to enhance it and strengthen it
67:06
particularly in anger generation who are going to be active in the next 25 years
67:10
we have to strengthen this identification people are identified
67:14
with their caste creed religion nationality all this is fine but the
67:19
most fundamental identity is your a piece of this planet your very body that
67:23
you carry is a piece of this planet and half your lungs is hanging out there on
67:27
the tree I want you to feel it not just think it's a great idea it's not an idea
67:32
it is a reality that we're living isn't it this reality has to sink into people
67:38
you don't have to talk about identifying themselves with the tree if if you sit
67:43
in front of a tree or under a tree and breathe consciously you know there's a
67:48
big difference there's a big difference sitting in the building and breathing
67:53
sitting under a tree and breathing there is a big difference one can feel it I
67:56
want people to feel it but they're not enough trees for all of us to sit under
68:01
we need to plant them I would like to especially acknowledge Jack Neville
68:06
O'Shea 50 million trees in the next tree her company is doing 7,000 megawatts of
68:13
power from just so I want you to see them not as people I want you to see
68:24
them as solutions for the future they are the solutions for future what
68:28
we need to do is right now they're just to sitting here we need to do
68:32
multiplication we need to increase their numbers we need to increase their
68:37
numbers means they must be recognized people should know that people are
68:41
making this contribution I wanted to talk about it a French man is coming to
68:45
Tamilnadu on planting 15 million trees in Tamil Nadu I want you to talk about
68:49
it it's very important that we constantly talk about solutions the
68:55
important thing is that everybody talks about it that everybody doesn't drop
68:59
their hands but he says yes there's a solution
69:02
people are working for it what can I do what can I do will naturally come when
69:06
you see people who create solutions are recognized in the world
69:12
definitely more people will look for solutions that's what we need to do
69:16
thank you very much lights off
69:22
yes let's offer
69:57
Horace Amidala or volatility
70:40
the scientific community release a report that proves beyond a doubt that
70:45
the earth is getting normal this global warming is caused but since you've grown
70:49
ups too and things you don't if drastic measures aren't taken soon by
70:55
the time I drop there won't be any fish left in the sea rainforests and clean
71:01
air will be a thing of the past polar ice caps will be gone oceans will
71:06
rise and entire countries will disappear life will change in ways you can't even
71:11
imagine there could be found worldwide epidemics
71:16
life expectancy will be lower we are not just talking about the future we are
71:20
talking about my future
71:34
today
72:42
you

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ブログ①: 聞かせてよ、英語のお話・わらべ歌
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